Ziosk Fraud??

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Sep 2, 2017
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#1
I had a bizarre experience at Friday's. We spent $56 on our meal. The ziosk at the table has a tip slider which started at 20%, which should have been $11.20. Instead, it was over $20 for 20%. I played with the slider, and at every % it was approximately double -- i.e. it displayed a tip of over $11 when I slid the slider down to 10%. I think it was exactly double, but for whatever reason, it didn't occur to me that this could be important, so all I can say is approximately double. I slid the slider down to like 7 or 8% -- wasn't wild about the service -- and got correctly charged for the correct check price and tip amount I wanted -- a tip of around 15%. I still have the receipt, and the whole family saw that the machine was glitched. I showed the waitress, whose eyes glazed over, but did not call for the manager.

I have great difficulty imagining this as some sort of computer glitch, but then again, how would intentional fraud work??? Intentional fraud seems kind of unlikely too! I did not actually get scammed here, I noticed it, I'm just really puzzled and wondering if this is some sort of deliberate scam. Both a glitch and fraud seem unlikely to me, but one or the other must be the case?
 
Likes: divinemsmstl
Sep 2, 2017
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#4
Hmmm...Luc's article got me thinking, and I think I have it mostly figured out now. Our food was taking forever, and when I complained, they reported "computer issues with the orders". It could be that they input our orders a second time, doubling the total that ziosk uses to calculate the tip, but then corrected the mistake in a way that corrected the amount displayed as the total check but not the amount that ziosk uses to calculate the tip. So most likely nothing nefarious. Thanks all.
 
Jul 27, 2016
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#5
I just read another story online about the exact same thing. Recommended tips were based on total PLUS tax, which is a no no and were substantially more than the actual tip should have been.

I do believe this is a scam and people need to do what you did - check the math.
Total plus tax would have only been around 10pct too high, not double.

Anyway, I always tip as a pct of total including tax. It's not fraud in the slightest to calculate a recommended tip that way.
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
12,779
12,758
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New York
www.promalvacations.com
#6
Likes: mmb

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
12,779
12,758
113
New York
www.promalvacations.com
#8
They have IPads at tables in some restaurants that you can use to pay your bill and play games at the table.

But this is a concern even when you get a bill in a receipt- the figures are generally higher than the 10,15 and 18% they say they are.

Do your math before leaving an auto tip.
 
Apr 10, 2017
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#9
My credit card sends out alerts if there's a higher than normal tip. They want to ensure that no server is giving him or herself an overly generous amount. That is probably how some of these people found out about it. Also, if you think about it these machines can contribute to lower tips because they do some of the server's work. You can place your own order and pay your bill so the server has less to do.

I have my own interesting story about "suggested gratuity" percentages that appear on receipts. One time my staff and I went to lunch at Logan's. We were all happy with the service and the server put everyone's order on separate tickets. However, on closer inspection of the receipts she had blacked out every percentage line except for the 20% one. She did this on all 3 receipts and it was obviously deliberate. So because of that we all tipped less than what we normally would have done. None of us had ever seen that before or since.
 

jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
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#10
My credit card sends out alerts if there's a higher than normal tip. They want to ensure that no server is giving him or herself an overly generous amount. That is probably how some of these people found out about it. Also, if you think about it these machines can contribute to lower tips because they do some of the server's work. You can place your own order and pay your bill so the server has less to do.

I have my own interesting story about "suggested gratuity" percentages that appear on receipts. One time my staff and I went to lunch at Logan's. We were all happy with the service and the server put everyone's order on separate tickets. However, on closer inspection of the receipts she had blacked out every percentage line except for the 20% one. She did this on all 3 receipts and it was obviously deliberate. So because of that we all tipped less than what we normally would have done. None of us had ever seen that before or since.
Oh, ordering from a device instead of a human ... I just read about some places at EWR that do this and am looking forward to using the service on the way home. Nobody ever said anything about a ziosk tho.

Few things annoy me more than someone begging for a tip, or a larger tip as ADM describes. Doing that nearly ensures that they'll get half of what I'd normally leave them, and I'm generally quite generous. If it's a situation where a server's only contribution is delivering a meal, I'll probably just pay the bill and leave a dollar on the table.
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
12,779
12,758
113
New York
www.promalvacations.com
#11
Oh, ordering from a device instead of a human ... I just read about some places at EWR that do this and am looking forward to using the service on the way home. Nobody ever said anything about a ziosk tho.

Few things annoy me more than someone begging for a tip, or a larger tip as ADM describes. Doing that nearly ensures that they'll get half of what I'd normally leave them, and I'm generally quite generous. If it's a situation where a server's only contribution is delivering a meal, I'll probably just pay the bill and leave a dollar on the table.
It's not the servers fault that the company is using these automated things for payment. The ones I've used, orders were placed normally by giving it to our waiter or waitress- only the bill was paid on the tablet.
 
Likes: jsn55

mmb

Verified Member
Jan 20, 2015
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#12
It's not the servers fault that the company is using these automated things for payment. The ones I've used, orders were placed normally by giving it to our waiter or waitress- only the bill was paid on the tablet.
I kind of like paying the bill this way. Since my card never leaves my hand it is less likely to be compromised. We used one last night and it was only used for payment. All other interactions were with the waiter, who didn't seem to know much about the items on the menu. He was very young and not 'well travelled.'
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
12,779
12,758
113
New York
www.promalvacations.com
#13
I kind of like paying the bill this way. Since my card never leaves my hand it is less likely to be compromised. We used one last night and it was only used for payment. All other interactions were with the waiter, who didn't seem to know much about the items on the menu. He was very young and not 'well travelled.'
I agree and you don't have to try to find the waiter/waitress to get the bill. They seem to disappear when you want to get out.
 

jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
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#14
I had fun with this yesterday at the Newark airport. There must be a million ipads set up in Terminal C ... our waitress told us that 'United owns it all', whatever that means. I got halfway through an order twice but my ipad didn't work very well. So the charming waitress sat down and 'took our order' on the ipad at the next table. The prices were horrendous, even for EWR ... $18 for a glass of chardonnay; $27 for a chicken sandwich. Big discount for using your UA visa, but you have to input your Mileage Plus a/c which I didn't like. Excellent food was out in a jiffy and we didn't have to wait for the bill. 15% tip was included automatically ... we would have tipped 20%, she was really a great server. I played with a couple more ipads at a different gate ... they 'kinda' work, very slow getting online to browse for something to read. There will be major issues down the road with hacking into your Mileage+ a/c, but it was a fun experience and I'd catch any hacking quickly. So it was a very expensive, entertaining, and delicious lunch. I'd not do it again.
 
Apr 29, 2018
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#15
I had the exact same thing happen at Friday's today. Put the Ziosk slider at 15% and looked at the amount which was actually about 23%. I think this is a scam. I suspect most people just look at the slider as most of the people I know can't even calculate a tip. This is not the first time this has happened with an electronic tip machine. First time was with my hairdresser. Don't know what system she uses but I put the slider at 15% and was charged about 30%. Someone is making a lot of money off of these machines.
 

jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
6,678
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#16
So we now have hotels with their ridiculous resort fees, the airlines with their insane cancellation fees, rental car companies charging for damage that didn't occur and restaurants who calculate the tip for you ... at double what you choose. This kind of thing won't end until we stop patronizing the businesses that cloak a scam in the guise of technology. Well, the government could step in, but they're too busy bashing the President or campaigning for re-election.