Turks and Cacois

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Aug 28, 2019
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#1
Hello,
I took my entire family to Turks and Cacois, from June 23-28th, 2019 for my 80th birthday, a trip of a lifetime for me. Unfortunately, several of my family of 14 had to cancel rooms and flights, all within an allowed time and without penalties. After approximately 20 hours on the phone with different sales agents (prior to the trip), I was unable to finalize my account balance. Once home, I followed Elliott Advocacy recommendations and emailed officials of Beaches (Sandals), Mr's Rainer, Gonzales, Clark, Van Johnson, and Ms. White and Fagan, but never received a response, except one to say a team will work on my issue. I never heard from this "team". My issue is that I never received an itemized statement, despite hours and hours on the telephone prior to my trip, hours at the resort questioning my bill, and multiple emails to all parties after the trip, trying to figure out credits due my account.
I then had my Visa bank debit the resorts account and place thousands of dollars back into my personal account. Surprise, the next day I received a call from the resort.
I am not in total agreement with their accounting, as it is extremely difficult to follow. I asked for a room by room accounting, rather than an an explanation which switches credits from one room to the other.
There are many other issues of terrible performance by the resort:
I have copies of all emails, including those that show promised credits were never credited to my credit card, and no reason or follow up call as to why these credits were not received.
The time I spent on this issue, at the resort, resulted in losing almost one full day of my vacation, particularly disrupting dinner reservations for 11 persons, and this can be confirmed by their front desk person, Denishia.
I was told there were no on site personnel to clarify my account. Denishia was talking to persons in other countries for accounting help!
I have never been to a resort, hotel, motel, or convention center when I haven't been presented a statement upon leaving.
The resort personnel had asked many times, when planning this trip, if a special occasion was involved. I explained it was my 80th Birthday. At no time during the entire trip, was this acknowledged, to the disappointment of myself, and family.
My grandson became very ill at the resort. A stool culture was taken and the results were to be mailed to my daughter the day after we left the resort. They never were. When I mentioned this to a Ms. Cadore in mid August, approximately 6 weeks later, the results were sent the next day. Fortunately, he recovered without needing the results of the sample.

Resolution?
This trip was disrupted by a resort that was totally disfunction in their promises, accounting procedures and communications. No one, until Visa debited their account, did Ms. Cadore respond in mid August. This is intolerable.
After requesting 2 of the 4 rooms be at no charge, the resort offered 50,000 Sandals Select points, which have a value of $1250, which I am not interested in.
The total I paid for this trip was $34,462. My total credits, excluding flight credits and penalties was $2860.51.
Therefore, $2860.51 (less than 10%) was the total credit given for 3 persons who didn't attend at all, 1 who left 2 days early, and 1 who left 1 day early. This is not logical nor reasonable.
I am aware that asking for 2 rooms at no charge is aggressive, but I feel my room should be free. The room price was $7578.92, including air.

The value of my claim is $7578.00
Travel date is June 23-28th.
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
19,399
17,897
113
New York
www.promalvacations.com
#2
Did your family that canceled have travel insurance?

Once air is booked, it’s non refundable. The only way for reimbursement is through insurance. I’ve never heard of canceling within an allotted time and receiving a refund on air. The rooms maybe.

We would need to see the contact you signed to be able to comments. The contract states the cancellation dates.

I take it you did this yourself and did not use a travel agent?
 
Likes: VoR61
Aug 28, 2019
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#3
Hello Neil,
The air was booked directly through the resort by their representatives and myself (no travel agent other than those of the resort). I didn't have insurance, nor was any needed. Full airfares were credited back to the accounts, less a penalty of $200/ticket. None of this is in my dispute, and credits and penalties were properly given. These credits were subtracted from my total amount paid. I believed the date penalties would be in affect was 30 day prior to the trip, but all changes were prior to the required date.
Thanks
 
Mar 23, 2015
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#4
Hello,
I took my entire family to Turks and Cacois, from June 23-28th, 2019 for my 80th birthday, a trip of a lifetime for me. Unfortunately, several of my family of 14 had to cancel rooms and flights, all within an allowed time and without penalties. After approximately 20 hours on the phone with different sales agents (prior to the trip), I was unable to finalize my account balance. Once home, I followed Elliott Advocacy recommendations and emailed officials of Beaches (Sandals), Mr's Rainer, Gonzales, Clark, Van Johnson, and Ms. White and Fagan, but never received a response, except one to say a team will work on my issue. I never heard from this "team". My issue is that I never received an itemized statement, despite hours and hours on the telephone prior to my trip, hours at the resort questioning my bill, and multiple emails to all parties after the trip, trying to figure out credits due my account.
I then had my Visa bank debit the resorts account and place thousands of dollars back into my personal account. Surprise, the next day I received a call from the resort.
I am not in total agreement with their accounting, as it is extremely difficult to follow. I asked for a room by room accounting, rather than an an explanation which switches credits from one room to the other.
There are many other issues of terrible performance by the resort:
I have copies of all emails, including those that show promised credits were never credited to my credit card, and no reason or follow up call as to why these credits were not received.
The time I spent on this issue, at the resort, resulted in losing almost one full day of my vacation, particularly disrupting dinner reservations for 11 persons, and this can be confirmed by their front desk person, Denishia.
I was told there were no on site personnel to clarify my account. Denishia was talking to persons in other countries for accounting help!
I have never been to a resort, hotel, motel, or convention center when I haven't been presented a statement upon leaving.
The resort personnel had asked many times, when planning this trip, if a special occasion was involved. I explained it was my 80th Birthday. At no time during the entire trip, was this acknowledged, to the disappointment of myself, and family.
My grandson became very ill at the resort. A stool culture was taken and the results were to be mailed to my daughter the day after we left the resort. They never were. When I mentioned this to a Ms. Cadore in mid August, approximately 6 weeks later, the results were sent the next day. Fortunately, he recovered without needing the results of the sample.

Resolution?
This trip was disrupted by a resort that was totally disfunction in their promises, accounting procedures and communications. No one, until Visa debited their account, did Ms. Cadore respond in mid August. This is intolerable.
After requesting 2 of the 4 rooms be at no charge, the resort offered 50,000 Sandals Select points, which have a value of $1250, which I am not interested in.
The total I paid for this trip was $34,462. My total credits, excluding flight credits and penalties was $2860.51.
Therefore, $2860.51 (less than 10%) was the total credit given for 3 persons who didn't attend at all, 1 who left 2 days early, and 1 who left 1 day early. This is not logical nor reasonable.
I am aware that asking for 2 rooms at no charge is aggressive, but I feel my room should be free. The room price was $7578.92, including air.

The value of my claim is $7578.00
Travel date is June 23-28th.
Your problem is you don't even know what you're really due. You say yourself that you couldn't figure out what the credits due to you were supposed to be, that you had money debited to this account and that, etc... You need to sit down with your statements and figure out which charges were for which people and which were credited back. Then you can go from there. Demand an itemized statement from your travel agent (presuming you used one?) You are entitled to one. Perhaps you got discounts do to the number in your party and that is why things weren't a 1 to 1 correlation when people dropped out?
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
19,399
17,897
113
New York
www.promalvacations.com
#5
Your problem is you don't even know what you're really due. You say yourself that you couldn't figure out what the credits due to you were supposed to be, that you had money debited to this account and that, etc... You need to sit down with your statements and figure out which charges were for which people and which were credited back. Then you can go from there. Demand an itemized statement from your travel agent (presuming you used one?) You are entitled to one. Perhaps you got discounts do to the number in your party and that is why things weren't a 1 to 1 correlation when people dropped out?
He didn’t use a travel agent.

Norman, do you have a family member that can sit down with you and go over the listing of people who occupied rooms and didn’t?

As I said, everything is contingent on the group contract you had with them and it’s not really anything we cannot look at for you.


Have you gone to the President of the company? You should write and give him the dates you wrote to each of the other executives and their names and told them all you’ve heard is they will look into it and no one has gotten back.

I hope you all had a fabulous trip- in our opinion that is the best Beaches resort!

Just an FYI- this is a taste of the things travel agents handle. This would have been sorted out before you even arrived if an agent had booked.
 
Mar 23, 2015
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#6
He didn’t use a travel agent.

Norman, do you have a family member that can sit down with you and go over the listing of people who occupied rooms and didn’t?

As I said, everything is contingent on the group contract you had with them and it’s not really anything we cannot look at for you.


Have you gone to the President of the company? You should write and give him the dates you wrote to each of the other executives and their names and told them all you’ve heard is they will look into it and no one has gotten back.

I hope you all had a fabulous trip- in our opinion that is the best Beaches resort!

Just an FYI- this is a taste of the things travel agents handle. This would have been sorted out before you even arrived if an agent had booked.
Ughhhhh I'm a pretty savvy world traveler and even *I* would engage an experienced TA for a $35K trip!! Holy Moly!
 
Likes: JVillegirl541
Aug 28, 2019
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#8
Thanks for the replies.
Honestly, setting up the trip without a travel agent wasn't a problem, although I do regret it now. The early departures were not penalized in any way, as they were done prior to any penalty. The issue is that I cannot figure out the discounts per room to confirm they are correct, not because I don't know who slept in them etc. The taxes, discounts, and fees differ on each account, even in rooms with the same number of people. I am continuing to ask (demand) for information. Thank you and I will keep you posted. Have a fabulous holiday.
 
Sep 19, 2015
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#9
Thanks for the replies.
Honestly, setting up the trip without a travel agent wasn't a problem, although I do regret it now. The early departures were not penalized in any way, as they were done prior to any penalty. The issue is that I cannot figure out the discounts per room to confirm they are correct, not because I don't know who slept in them etc. The taxes, discounts, and fees differ on each account, even in rooms with the same number of people. I am continuing to ask (demand) for information. Thank you and I will keep you posted. Have a fabulous holiday.
I have never stayed in this resort so I may be asking silly questions -- could the difference in fees, discounts etc be the result of booking different promotions online and then changing the dates-- such as 20% off a deluxe room booked for 5 days, 10% for delux room booked for 3 days -- I know I see a number of different options when I book directly.
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
19,399
17,897
113
New York
www.promalvacations.com
#10
This is why we need to see the actual contract. Like any other hotel, pricing could be based on how many rooms are booked.

For instance- you are quoted a price for 5-10 rooms, a price for 11-20, a price for 21-30. If your original group booked 11 rooms and three families dropped out, then the group reverts to the pricing for 5-10 people.

I have a feeling that this might be what happened.

Norman, without seeing the contract, we can’t help you any more than to advise you to use our company contacts.
 
Jul 30, 2018
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#11
A few thoughts:

I recommend you thoroughly re-read the link about how to develop a paper trail. If the above narrative you first posted is what you sent to our contacts, then chances are your email was put aside for a few reasons:

1. It is way too long, containing extraneous information (grandson illness and stool culture), emotional,and is hard to follow because there is very little background information provided. Most notably you do not list the terms and conditions in the contract you had. The Elliot method recommends creating a bullet point list of facts only, in chronological order, devoid of emotion and extraneous information. Keep in mind the person reading your email did not cause your problem, yet is in position to help you.
2. After you send your letter, using the guidelines in the link, to the first contact, you need to wait a week before moving on to the next. If you simultaneously write to all of them, then you are almost certain not to get a response because it may have gone to spam.
3. Without the details of the contract you had with the resort, we can't ascertain why you were charged for the family members who departed early. I am inclined to agree with Neil in that there probably was some kind of repricing after they left, causing you to lose any "bulk" discount.
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
19,399
17,897
113
New York
www.promalvacations.com
#12
Talking about your grandson becoming ill- if no one else became ill after eating in your group, chances are that it had nothing to do with food prep.

Many people eat like they do not eat at home when going to all inclusive resorts. Most eat much more then they do at home, they eat a lot more fruit than they do at home, and they eat rich desserts and food they don’t normally eat. All this can affect the digestive system and cause digestive issues. So if no one else was sick, I would keep this out of your complaint. It has nothing to do with the payment issues.
 
Likes: jsn55
Aug 28, 2019
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#13
Thank you all your your responses. They are greatly appreciated.
1. We didn't qualify for any group rates because 5 rooms are required, and we only had 4.
2. Any difference in fees is not the result of different promotions and or changing dates.
3. I have a paper trail of all correspondences via phone and email, sent weekly over several months. The email sent to Ms. Cadore was a summary of the events leading to my frustration, as I wasn't positive she had seen the previous emails and nor had records of the taped phone calls. I cannot accept that all previous emails to so many persons could be spam.
4. I have no problem with my grandson getting sick during the trip. My issue is that the culture report results were not forwarded as promised. Luckily he recovered without the benefit of the report.

Last Friday I received a response to my email, from Ms. Cadore. She stated that "prices are not broken down into separate rates for taxes and fees".
Also, promotions may vary from room to room. Note, all rooms were the same size, style, and mostly adjacent to each other. All were
booked at the same time, 3 had 4 persons, 1 room had 2 persons. I cannot receive an itemization by room, and have only an itemization including transfers of credits from room to room.

At this point, I will not proceed further regarding room fees and charges, as without legal assistance, I cannot go further. I have exhausted any hope of getting further documentation from this company.

My question now becomes:

What is the best tactic for me to receive restitution from this company. Their offer of settlement is 50,000 Sandal Select points. Ms Cadore states this translates into a $1500 value towards a future booking. Ms Cadore stated that this offer is final. As yet, I haven't asked if this can be given as cash, because I believe the amount doesn't justify all the issues and difficulties I have endured on this trip. I did not wish to negotiate until receiving advice from the Advocacy Group. I have not threatened to get an attorney, nor use social media.
Please advise, and again, thank you.
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
19,399
17,897
113
New York
www.promalvacations.com
#14
Unless you can prove that they gave you one rate and then charged you another - I'm not sure restitution is due. They are correct about not breaking out taxes and fees - Sandals never does, the price they give you includes all of that so you really only need to know the flat charge for each room.

Rooms will be priced differently based on the number of people in each room. The more people in the room, the lower the per person cost is. Did any of the room configurations change - for instance, a room of four changed to a room of three because someone canceled?

I am not certain why they can't give you a breakdown of the cost of each room. That makes no sense. There should have been individual confirmations for each booking - didn't they send that?
 
Likes: VoR61
Sep 19, 2015
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#15
With an all inclusive, it should make a difference how many people are in the room because of the food costs.

When the booking was made, was there any confirmation via emails as to costs?

When there were revisions, was anything documented on paper?
 
Likes: VoR61
Jan 6, 2015
3,099
3,203
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#16
There are the key items I see in your statements:
  • I took my entire family to Turks and Cacois, from June 23-28th, 2019 for my 80th birthday
  • At this point, I will not proceed further regarding room fees and charges
  • There are many other issues of terrible performance by the resort
  • They have offered a $1500 value towards a future booking
  • You are debating a request for that in cash
Recommending an approach with these details is difficult, at least for me, so I will ask questions that I think you should ask yourself.
  1. On a scale of 1-100, how much did I enjoy my time with family?
  2. How much more energy is it worth to continue the fight?
  3. Are the "many other issues" the compelling reason I am upset? (could do 1-100 again)
  4. How likely am I to visit this resort again?
When you are done, your answers will hopefully lead to a conclusion. Without knowing the "other issues", if my rating for the first question was 75 or better, and the others average 40 or less, I would counter and accept the cash. No amount of money can replace my peace of mind, which is profoundly impacted in your present circumstance.

Just my thoughts . . .
 

jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
8,565
8,790
113
San Francisco
#17
VoR has done his usual excellent job of summarization and advising you. I would add that receiving a cash refund instead of a voucher for a future visit is a very small possibility. The resort can absorb the cost of the voucher for far less value than the cash. I would ask that the voucher be transferrable so someone else could benefit from it if you'll not use it yourself.
 

jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
8,565
8,790
113
San Francisco
#18
I'm sorry that I cannot understand why you had trouble with the total amount due. You state: "After approximately 20 hours on the phone with different sales agents (prior to the trip), I was unable to finalize my account balance." Was this all prepaid? And you're looking for money back for the rooms that the family members had to cancel? Do you have a list of what you booked? You know who had to cancel and the cost for those rooms, right? I don't see how taxes and fees enter into the equation. You booked x, you used y, you're owed z. What am I not seeing here?
 
Aug 28, 2019
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#19
Again, thanks for your replies and advice.
Visa released the debited Sandals monies placed in my account, back to Sandals. Sandals agreed to credit my card with $1250 ( I was incorrect in stating $1500). So I received cash rather than Sandals points. Case closed.
I appreciate everyones suggestions and ideas. Bottom line- I am happy this has ended, I feel I should have received additional monies, but was not willing to hire an attorney or go to small claims court without one.