Tix international gate1.ca code-share information not disclosed

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Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
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www.promalvacations.com
#21
Have you reached out to your Canadian Transportation agency?

Canada Transportation Agency Contacts
If United is unable to solve your problem to your satisfaction, you may contact the Canada Transportation Agency at the following:

HeadquartersManager, Enforcement Division
Canadian Transportation Agency
Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0N9
Telephone: 819-953-9786, Fax: 819-953-1972
Email: [email protected]
 
Likes: catbana
Nov 26, 2019
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#22
Thank you so much Neil.
They do have a code-share regulation but it might only apply to actual carriers.
I will write to them anyway. Thanks for the information.

Thank you everyone who has provided information.
 
Sep 19, 2015
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#23
Not that it will help the case, but BittyBoo was correct that I WAS physically in the US.
I do not think that is what matters -- what matters is what the US DOT jurisdiction is. Canada has laws on travel for the disabled. If one books a service from Canada on an overseas website that does not even charge in Canadian dollars for oh "Air Middle of the Indian Ocean" and said regional carrier does not the same accessible travel, the Canadian regulators cannot go after" Air Middle of the Indian Ocean" for violating Accessible Travel Regulations for Canadians just because the person booked in Canada.

And I do not doubt that is one of many shoddy OTAs -- but the time to investigate this is before hitting the buy button. I do not know what these complaints will do -- the company may get fined, may not, but at this point the OP has a ticket that is not refundable. And many times these investigations take months.
 
Nov 26, 2019
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#24
I do have to question why this isn't a legit credit card case of item not as described. There's no where that says business can just force me what ever airline tickets they want, including code-share flights.

Allow me to make an analogy.
I bought a first class ticket at XYZ stadium for Justin Bieber concert. At the time of booking, the agent discloses that I will be put in front of a big giant screen.
After I got the tickets, I am then informed that there's no giant screen, XYZ stadium can never install big giant screens due to technical impossibility, your fault you didn't know, too bad, so sad, but hey, you still get to see Justin Bieber concert and the stadium is comfortable. No a CC case.
Or any other similar analogy.
You were told you would get item A, you bought it, you were then given something else and are told that item A was never possible to begin with, but even if you don't like it and might've chosen something else, you are stuck. No case with the credit card.

Regardless of the reasons why I don't want to fly UA, my question remains, why is this not a legitimate CC case?
 
Jun 24, 2019
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#25
It’s not whether we think this is a legitimate dispute. It’s whether your bank does. My guess is that your bank will reject the dispute perhaps after asking gate 1 for its view. Gate 1,to the extent it responds, may well argue that the failure to disclose the code share is not material. It’s like telling you you will be on a 737 and instead putting you on a 717.

and, as I said above, ANA agreed to transport you from Toronto to Tokyo with a change of planes in the US. ANA could do this entirely on code share flights. True, it needs to disclose but a test I ran this afternoon showed full disclosure. Whether gate 1 has to disclose is a matter of Canadian law on which the folks at this forum don’t opine.

when the credit card dispute rules in this country came about there was a debate as to whether it was appropriate dispute if you ordered a black Cadillac but got a pink one instead. In this country, that’s a legitimate dispute. Whether that is a legitimate dispute in Canada is something we can’t opine. And whether your dispute rises to the level of a pink Cadillac is uncertain.
 
Sep 19, 2015
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#26
I do have to question why this isn't a legit credit card case of item not as described. There's no where that says business can just force me what ever airline tickets they want, including code-share flights.

Allow me to make an analogy.
I bought a first class ticket at XYZ stadium for Justin Bieber concert. At the time of booking, the agent discloses that I will be put in front of a big giant screen.
After I got the tickets, I am then informed that there's no giant screen, XYZ stadium can never install big giant screens due to technical impossibility, your fault you didn't know, too bad, so sad, but hey, you still get to see Justin Bieber concert and the stadium is comfortable. No a CC case.
Or any other similar analogy.
You were told you would get item A, you bought it, you were then given something else and are told that item A was never possible to begin with, but even if you don't like it and might've chosen something else, you are stuck. No case with the credit card.

Regardless of the reasons why I don't want to fly UA, my question remains, why is this not a legitimate CC case?
Because you are getting what you paid for if there are no disclosures mandated. If ANA marketed flight XXXX is operated by United then that is what you paid for. You booked ANA XXXX and paid for XXXX — and are getting what you booked and paid for.

Gate1 could say the above and also point out that you could have easily googled ANA XXXX to see who the marketing carrier if the law does not require disclosure.

ANA has code shares with airlines around the world — not every ANA marketed flight is operated by ANA.
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
20,745
20,324
113
New York
www.promalvacations.com
#27
I do have to question why this isn't a legit credit card case of item not as described. There's no where that says business can just force me what ever airline tickets they want, including code-share flights.

Allow me to make an analogy.
I bought a first class ticket at XYZ stadium for Justin Bieber concert. At the time of booking, the agent discloses that I will be put in front of a big giant screen.
After I got the tickets, I am then informed that there's no giant screen, XYZ stadium can never install big giant screens due to technical impossibility, your fault you didn't know, too bad, so sad, but hey, you still get to see Justin Bieber concert and the stadium is comfortable. No a CC case.
Or any other similar analogy.
You were told you would get item A, you bought it, you were then given something else and are told that item A was never possible to begin with, but even if you don't like it and might've chosen something else, you are stuck. No case with the credit card.

Regardless of the reasons why I don't want to fly UA, my question remains, why is this not a legitimate CC case?
If the laws in Canada do not require disclosure of a code share flight- the airline did nothing wrong, thus why the cc company sided with the website.
 
Likes: BittyBoo

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
20,745
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www.promalvacations.com
#28
The Canadian Transportation Authority does require code shares to be shown before a flight is purchased.
In the US, a travel agent or travel agency can be fined if we do not disclose the code share on a flight. I would imagine that it is the same in Canada.

Now you should file a complaint with them. Let us know what happens.

Part 5 – Informing travellers of code-share and blocked-space arrangements
To ensure that passengers are informed of the carrier they will be travelling with at all stages of the process, from planning to the time of travel, section 8.5 of the ATRrequires a marketing carrier to advise the public that it is providing an air service by selling transportation in its name on flights operated by another person.

The marketing carrier is required to inform travelers, both before reservation (or at the time the code-share or blocked-space arrangement is entered into if a reservation has already been made) and at check in, of the identity of the person offering the service as well as the type of aircraft used, and must make this information available:

  • on all service schedules, timetables, electronic displays and any other public advertising of the air service; and
  • for each segment of the journey, on all travel documents, including itineraries, if issued.


 
Sep 19, 2015
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#29
The Canadian Transportation Authority does require code shares to be shown before a flight is purchased.
In the US, a travel agent or travel agency can be fined if we do not disclose the code share on a flight. I would imagine that it is the same in Canada.

Now you should file a complaint with them. Let us know what happens.

Part 5 – Informing travellers of code-share and blocked-space arrangements
To ensure that passengers are informed of the carrier they will be travelling with at all stages of the process, from planning to the time of travel, section 8.5 of the ATRrequires a marketing carrier to advise the public that it is providing an air service by selling transportation in its name on flights operated by another person.

The marketing carrier is required to inform travelers, both before reservation (or at the time the code-share or blocked-space arrangement is entered into if a reservation has already been made) and at check in, of the identity of the person offering the service as well as the type of aircraft used, and must make this information available:

  • on all service schedules, timetables, electronic displays and any other public advertising of the air service; and
  • for each segment of the journey, on all travel documents, including itineraries, if issued.


I think the problem is that the ATR only applies to airlines and not travel agents


https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-88-58/page-1.html

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-10.4

CAnadian Transport only seems to take complaints against the carrier — not the seller of travel
 
Likes: BittyBoo
Nov 26, 2019
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#31
I really wanted to keep my reasons private. Let's just say it has to do with abusive family members and leave it at that.
I did not think my personal reasons mattered, that's why I have been trying to keep it vague and avoid directly saying I don't want to fly UA.
Why it doesn't personally matter to you has nothing to do with me. There is a reason why codeshare disclosure has become the law in at least 2 countries.

Thank you to people who have been helpful and have been sticking to the facts.
 
Sep 19, 2015
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#33
Catbana please note that none of us support gate1 or lousy OTAs. What we discuss is the system and what protections (or lack thereof).

I was surprised that the CTA does not seem to cover travel agencies with disclosures on code shares — in the US it does — but in the US the 24 hour cancellation does not apply to OTAs so we have our own inconsistencies.

I do suspect that the OTA used is a shoddy — they want email contact and response in five days? Many of these OTAs make money on fees —

The shoddy OTAs lure people in with cheap prices but in many cases cheap can end up being expensive.
 
Nov 26, 2019
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#34
Will do, Neil.

Oh no worries Christina. I understand that. I was mostly replying to comments like "am shaking my head. Just take whatever flights".
I am grateful for all the information and discussion.

I was surprised that it doesn't, too. If you look at the baggage disclosure section of the CTA, it does say that ticket sellers also have to disclose baggage fees/size etc, not just the carriers, but when it comes to code-sharing, it doesn't mention that.
I do wonder if the part "public advertising of the air service" would count. Personally I would call it "public advertising" and that's how I found the tickets in the first place.

FYI for public interesting, I've also been looking into Canada Consumer protection Act as well, which covers "accurate and fair description", as well as sales conducted under a misrepresentation of being affiliated with a certain group (in this case, Canada).
 
Nov 26, 2019
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#35
Hi all, an update.

Just received an email that there's a huge change to my itinerary. The return departing airport has changed, and the layover has become more than 5 hours instead of the original less than 2 hours.

I know that ANA provide full refund if I do not accept the change. I've checked gate1 policies but it's not mentioned. Does anyone know what my rights are in this case?
I am doing a research on this myself atm.
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
20,745
20,324
113
New York
www.promalvacations.com
#36
Hi all, an update.

Just received an email that there's a huge change to my itinerary. The return departing airport has changed, and the layover has become more than 5 hours instead of the original less than 2 hours.

I know that ANA provide full refund if I do not accept the change. I've checked gate1 policies but it's not mentioned. Does anyone know what my rights are in this case?
I am doing a research on this myself atm.
If the departing airport had changed and that isn’t acceptable the agency is supposed to allow you to cancel the ticket. So go to gate1 and tell them you want a refund.

I am sure you realize now that this would be much easier if you hadn’t used this supplier and booked directly with the airline.
 
Nov 26, 2019
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#37
If the departing airport had changed and that isn’t acceptable the agency is supposed to allow you to cancel the ticket. So go to gate1 and tell them you want a refund.
Great! I haven't been able to find any policy on schedule change in Canada so hopefully this applies.

I am sure you realize now that this would be much easier if you hadn’t used this supplier and booked directly with the airline.
"Hi all. First an foremost, just to throw the dead horse out there; I've learned that I should book through a travel agency or through the actual airline if possible."
 

jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
8,949
9,564
113
San Francisco
#39
Be very, very careful when you deal with Gate 1. Verify all the details six times. You have no idea how competent their air desk is. Take nothing for granted. Be in good humor and brimming with patience when you call them. Get everything settled and then check it all the next day. Be prepared for more than one phone call.
 
Likes: catbana