Physical Assault on 68yr old man by c35yo on Epic

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Sep 22, 2014
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#21
Any trained criminal investigator will tell you, EVERYONE lies.
The guilty lie to protect themselves.
The victims lie to increase their likelihood of sucessful retribution.

I didn't say "there are two sides to every story".
I said "there are at least three sides to every story." :D:D
That is an accepted fact of human nature in many disciplines, including criminal justice.

I have been at sea on cruise ships between 400 - 500 days.
There is not one day that I have not witnessed people on an elevator intentionally fail to make room for more passengers (comfort or ease of egress?) OR new passengers squeeze into to an overfilled elevator (tired of waiting ?)
The worst of the worst is the customary rush to beat wheelchair bound passengers, who have been waiting first in line, to a newly arriving car.

We're talking about a substantial % of passengers who develop a "Lord of the Rings" mentality on a cruise ship.
 
Likes: Realitoes

technomage1

Verified Member
Jan 5, 2015
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#22
Any trained criminal investigator will tell you, EVERYONE lies.
The guilty lie to protect themselves.
The victims lie to increase their likelihood of sucessful retribution.

I didn't say "there are two sides to every story".
I said "there are at least three sides to every story." :D:D
That is an accepted fact of human nature in many disciplines, including criminal justice.

I have been at sea on cruise ships between 400 - 500 days.
There is not one day that I have not witnessed people on an elevator intentionally fail to make room for more passengers (comfort or ease of egress?) OR new passengers squeeze into to an overfilled elevator (tired of waiting ?)
The worst of the worst is the customary rush to beat wheelchair bound passengers, who have been waiting first in line, to a newly arriving car.

We're talking about a substantial % of passengers who develop a "Lord of the Rings" mentality on a cruise ship.
I've never cruised - and probably never will - so I take your word at the behavior exhibited on one.
I still think common manners are decreasing in American society at an alarming rate everywhere.
 
Aug 10, 2013
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#23
I am one of those odd ducks who does not agree with the statement that "there are always 2 sides to every story". I believe that sometimes in life, it is really clear who is wrong, especially if one of the participants is crazy.
A deranged passenger is.....deranged .....and neither logic nor ignoring the person will improve the situation. The only way to deal with deranged people is avoidance, unfortunetly… the elevator sharing of space was unavoidable and unforeseeable, as was the later attack.
Unless you want to sue the person or the cruise line, or become an advocate to change maritime laws, or initiate a newspaper expose, then I think your avenues of pursuit may be over. I think this is an awful experience, and there is no excuse for what happened to you. And I think you should chalk this up to the fact that you can't control the behavior of any person other than yourself, and you should put the incident behind you and move forward. Just be grateful you were not physically harmed.
The problem with crazy is that it doesn't always look crazy. Sometimes, the best com woman in the world knows just how to look like a feeble, helpless old woman. Not necessarily saying that's the case here, but always have to be on the alert.
 
Likes: LaurieB
Aug 28, 2015
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#24
Any trained criminal investigator will tell you, EVERYONE lies.
The guilty lie to protect themselves.
The victims lie to increase their likelihood of sucessful retribution.

I didn't say "there are two sides to every story".
I said "there are at least three sides to every story." :D:D
That is an accepted fact of human nature in many disciplines, including criminal justice.

I have been at sea on cruise ships between 400 - 500 days.
There is not one day that I have not witnessed people on an elevator intentionally fail to make room for more passengers (comfort or ease of egress?) OR new passengers squeeze into to an overfilled elevator (tired of waiting ?)
The worst of the worst is the customary rush to beat wheelchair bound passengers, who have been waiting first in line, to a newly arriving car.

We're talking about a substantial % of passengers who develop a "Lord of the Rings" mentality on a cruise ship.
Ambrose came on here and posted for our help....not to be told that victims lie. Everyone does not lie, in my beliefs, although everyone does filter an experience through their internal self. My comment about "2 sides to every story" was directed to Ambrose in support of the horror of getting physically attacked, and it was not intended any kind of follow up to your input.
Deranged people can be anywhere....in movie theaters, in grocery stores, in churches, and on cruise ships. Thank goodness Ambrose was attacked and not shot.
 
Sep 22, 2014
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#25
Ambrose came on here and posted for our help....not to be told that victims lie. Everyone does not lie, in my beliefs, although everyone does filter an experience through their internal self. My comment about "2 sides to every story" was directed to Ambrose in support of the horror of getting physically attacked, and it was not intended any kind of follow up to your input.
Deranged people can be anywhere....in movie theaters, in grocery stores, in churches, and on cruise ships. Thank goodness Ambrose was attacked and not shot.
All Perps (perpetrators) and Vics (victims) lie All the time. This was not directed at our client. This was directed at the real world and real life as investigated by NCL's Security. You'll notice in my professional reply, rejected by our client, I recommended he file a complaint with the FBI (the agency with jurisdiction) but cautiond him that lying to them is a felony. You and I don't know what happened on board. But my professional legal experience coupled with my extensive cruise experience gives me inisght as to what ALL the parties said happened.
 
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Likes: mmb

Carol Phillips

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 28, 2014
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#27
Posts #2 and #3 asked that same question. And Mr Terrence replied:

"Mostly, I am just seeking an acknowledgment from NCL of the pain, stress, anger, humiliation, fear and trip-ruination this incident caused me and my wife. I don't think people should have to go through such things."
 

jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
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#28
Ambrose, this is just a HORRIBLE situation. I cannot read the whole thread at this moment, but want to suggest right now that you write a review on Cruise Critic and on as many other forums as you can find. I cannot imagine how awful this experience must have been.
 

mmb

Verified Member
Jan 20, 2015
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#29
I do believe there is a lack of elevator etiquette,. I can be a bit claustrophobic and would definitely find it rude that 2 people squeezed in to such a degree the door wouldn't even close, rather than just take the next one, so that I had to separate from my group. It is supposed to be a vacation, not rush hour. (An etiquette breach is never an excuse for physical violence, though)
I am 5'3 while my husband is 6'4. Our reaction to people squeezing onto a crowded elevator is vastly different. I become agitated as I get backs/chests/ folded arms looming over me and I get a sudden claustrophobic sensation. My husband's head is above it all and it doesn't bother him one bit.
Therefore I will exit the elevator suddenly if I am able to do so. Not so easy if you get pushed to the back.
Main difference is I would never retaliate or bring up the subject again. I would just hope that maybe the person(s) squeezing on learned that it is rude to overcrowd an elevator and would adjust their actions in the future.
 
Aug 28, 2015
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#30
Posts #2 and #3 asked that same question. And Mr Terrence replied:

"Mostly, I am just seeking an acknowledgment from NCL of the pain, stress, anger, humiliation, fear and trip-ruination this incident caused me and my wife. I don't think people should have to go through such things."
But what does this mean? What specifically kind of acknowledgment? I am sure he asserted his displeasure already. He and his wife were super rude in the elevator. Unfortunately for him, he ticked off a crazy person. I don't see how this is NCL's fault or how an acknowledgment would even be satisfying, especially if they are coerced to give one, which it would have to be at this point because it has not been forthcoming on its own accord.
 
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Sep 6, 2015
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#31
Like a lot of things in life, this might best be one of those things you just put behind you. I doubt the cruise line is ever going to give you what you need. Maybe write one or two letters if you must, but I don't see them willingly acknowledging your experience, especially if the fear you might take legal action. For what it's worth, I am really sorry for your experience. It's not how we expect others to act.
 
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technomage1

Verified Member
Jan 5, 2015
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#32
But what does this mean? What specifically kind of acknowledgment? I am sure he asserted his displeasure already. He and his wife were super rude in the elevator. Unfortunately for him, he ticked off a crazy person. I don't see how this is NCL's fault or how an acknowledgment would even be satisfying, especially if they are coerced to give one, which it would have to be at this point because it has not been forthcoming on its own accord.
How were they rude? By getting on? The max capacity for a typical elevator is 16 persons. Neither of us was there, but I'm willing to bet the elevator wasn't near that. Most of the time Americans start to feel cramped around 6 or 8.
The mothers claustrophobia isn't on the OP. Those in the elevator should make room unless the capacity is reached. I don't like being pressed in either, but you're in public transport. Suck it up or use the stairs.
 
Sep 22, 2014
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#33
We're all guessing as to what really happened. That's the inherent problem. But, it's even more complicated on ships since more people act more entitled. That's why it's an almost impossible task for NCL investigators to reach a conclusion.
 
Aug 28, 2015
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#34
How were they rude? By getting on? The max capacity for a typical elevator is 16 persons. Neither of us was there, but I'm willing to bet the elevator wasn't near that. Most of the time Americans start to feel cramped around 6 or 8.
The mothers claustrophobia isn't on the OP. Those in the elevator should make room unless the capacity is reached. I don't like being pressed in either, but you're in public transport. Suck it up or use the stairs.
The LW said the doors didn't close, that is how we know.
 

technomage1

Verified Member
Jan 5, 2015
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#35
what happened two nights before I was assaulted.
I stepped onto an elevator on the Epic, turned around and as the door closed, the woman standing next to me announced that the elevator was too crowded for her. She kept the door from closing, got off, turned around and yelled that she would meet the other member(s) of her party on the seventh floor. The door closes.
The LW said the doors didn't close, that is how we know.
Check out the first quote. The OP stated the lady exiting kept the door from closing in order to exit. The doors were closing after her got on, indicating there was ample room. I believe they felt crowded - which as I noted tends to happen at half capacity for Americans. We like our space.

When he entered the elevator he had no way of knowing if the people in there were traveling together or not. He had no way of knowing if anyone was claustrophobic or not. He simply entered an elevator.
 
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Sep 22, 2014
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#36
Everyone, stop and think. There is a ramped up debate going on amongst ourselves over the true facts of what happened in the elevator. That disagreement is based upon the words of one of the parties.

Our client has shifted the target of his present complaint from the other party to the incident over to NCL for not carrying out a proper investigation and reporting findings to local authorities at the next port of call.
How could NCL reach conclusions with conflicting stories from two or more parties and we can't reach conclusions with the statement of one party?

That's why we a spinning our wheels on this one.
 
Aug 28, 2015
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#37
Everyone, stop and think. There is a ramped up debate going on amongst ourselves over the true facts of what happened in the elevator. That disagreement is based upon the words of one of the parties.

Our client has shifted the target of his present complaint from the other party to the incident over to NCL for not carrying out a proper investigation and reporting findings to local authorities at the next port of call.
How could NCL reach conclusions with conflicting stories from two or more parties and we can't reach conclusions with the statement of one party?

That's why we a spinning our wheels on this one.
I just deleted my reply. I was out but @technomage1 pulled me back in:)
 

mmb

Verified Member
Jan 20, 2015
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#38
LOL. Anyone who thinks 16 people can still fit on an elevator is in serious denial. Look at the obesity rates in this country and worldwide. Now add cruise ship to the mix and I can just about guarantee you there were a few obese/overweight people on that elevator. Whale sightings are everyday occurrences even if you are not cruising Alaska. LOL.
But I agree with those who are advising giving up as there is just not enough info to know what to think or what really happened.
 
Sep 22, 2014
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#39
I just deleted my reply. I was out but @technomage1 pulled me back in:)
AAGK
Actually, I think you should restore your post because I strongly believe that the dichotomy between your factual take and that of technomage1 clearly illustrates the most logical conclusion in this matter.
If we can not agree on what actually happened based upon one party's statement of facts, how can NCL 's investigation be found incomplete when they would have heard the statement of facts from both parties?
I wish you would restore your post, not to continue a disagreement between you and technomage1, but to demonstrate the underlying conumdrum that confronts us.
 
R

Realitoes

Guest
#40
I normally just take the stairs - especially during the busy times. But with the UBP offer on our upcoming Nov cruise, I have a feeling I will be seeing more of the elevators!!!! ;)
 
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