New credit card security issue

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Jun 24, 2019
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#1
I have a credit card with Citicards which was compromised. Citi closed that card number and promptly sent me a new card with a new account number. I suffered no financial loss.

I have an annual plan with Sirius. I did not update my credit card information with Sirius when I received the new card. Yesterday, Sirius billed me for a monthly plan rather than an annual renewal. The charge showed up on my Citicards account posted to the new card number. In calling Sirius to sort out their billing error (fixed, after 25 minutes and speaking to three reps, all of whom were likely overseas) the Sirius reps all recited the last 4 digits of my new credit card number. All insisted that Citicards had provided the new number to Sirius. Whether they could see the whole number was unclear to me.

I called Citicards. Citicards reports that it never provides credit card numbers to vendors, including vendors with recurring charges. Citicards might, upon receiving a recurring charge to a closed number, transfer it to the new number. I expressed shock at this as well. The instruction from Citicards, upon receiving the new card, was for me to update any recurring charges or merchants where my card was on file. (The rep offered to close the new card and send yet another card if I was uncomfortable, but Citicards was not troubled.)

Am I missing something? Is the world now so interconnected that my recurring charges are simply transferred? Is my credit card number just handed out willy-nilly?
 

Neil Maley

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Dec 27, 2014
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#2
What is the point of reporting the compromised card if Citi is going to post recurring payments to it?

I’d be pretty angry if Citi did that to me. Can you ask Citi to note on the new card not to post any recurring payments to the new card?
 
Mar 14, 2018
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#3
I'm not sure what the issue is. Citi replaced the card to prevent fraudulent transactions. They judged that the Sirius transaction was not fraudulent based on past activity on the card. And they were right.

Since Citi doesn't hold the cardowner responsible for fraud, this seems like good customer service to me.
 
Jun 24, 2019
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#4
What is the point of reporting the compromised card if Citi is going to post recurring payments to it?

I’d be pretty angry if Citi did that to me. Can you ask Citi to note on the new card not to post any recurring payments to the new card?
I have written conformation from Sirius that they have removed the recurring charge. Whether that works, or not, is unknown.
 
Likes: Neil Maley
Mar 23, 2015
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#5
I’m not sure what the issue was here. When my card was compromised, in order to make the transition to a new card more seamless my legitimate recurring transactions were seamlessly transferred to my new card. That was considered a service to me not something that I should be up in arms and angry about.
 
Jun 24, 2019
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#6
I'm not sure what the issue is. Citi replaced the card to prevent fraudulent transactions. They judged that the Sirius transaction was not fraudulent based on past activity on the card. And they were right.

Since Citi doesn't hold the cardowner responsible for fraud, this seems like good customer service to me.
The Sirius transaction was not authorized. I had never given Sirius the new card number and I had authorized a recurring charge on my old cancelled card for an annual plan, not the monthly plan they billed. That's been corrected with Sirius, which only took 3 people and 25 minutes, so a great victory.

Citicards insists that it did not provide the new number to Sirius. Citicards has called back to report that the charge was made to the new number, and not to the old number and then transferred. Apparently someone in the fraud department has taken my report seriously.
 
Likes: Neil Maley
Jun 24, 2019
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#7
I’m not sure what the issue was here. When my card was compromised, in order to make the transition to a new card more seamless my legitimate recurring transactions were seamlessly transferred to my new card. That was considered a service to me not something that I should be up in arms and angry about.
I wish that was a service that was offered, but, as noted above, upon issuance of the new card Citi told me it was my responsibility to deal with recurring charges (like Sirius), and Citi insists that it did not do this.
 
Mar 14, 2018
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#8
I wish that was a service that was offered, but, as noted above, upon issuance of the new card Citi told me it was my responsibility to deal with recurring charges (like Sirius), and Citi insists that it did not do this.
It is a service that is offered, but not every merchant is signed up for it. That's why they recommend you update your accounts.

Here's Visa's description of the service:
https://developer.visa.com/capabilities/vau
 
Likes: VoR61
Jun 24, 2019
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#9
It is a service that is offered, but not every merchant is signed up for it. That's why they recommend you update your accounts.

Here's Visa's description of the service:
https://developer.visa.com/capabilities/vau
OK, thanks. That makes sense. The only puzzlement is why the two people I've now spoken to at Citicards are clueless about this. It would also help if, upon issuance of a new card, Citicards would tell me who was on auto update rather than tell me to go do this myself.

We have another card we only use for recurring charges where we enter the data into a computer screen, rather than by telling someone the card number. The physical card never leaves its home. It has never been used for an ordinary transaction.

That card has been cloned twice. Each time, it was because someone obtained the card number, as the transaction reflected that the physical card was not present. Each time, we had to notify the approximately 20 merchants on that card of the new card number.
 
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#10
OK, thanks. That makes sense. The only puzzlement is why the two people I've now spoken to at Citicards are clueless about this. It would also help if, upon issuance of a new card, Citicards would tell me who was on auto update rather than tell me to go do this myself.

We have another card we only use for recurring charges where we enter the data into a computer screen, rather than by telling someone the card number. The physical card never leaves its home. It has never been used for an ordinary transaction.

That card has been cloned twice. Each time, it was because someone obtained the card number, as the transaction reflected that the physical card was not present. Each time, we had to notify the approximately 20 merchants on that card of the new card number.
Probably too subtle an issue to bother training first time personnel.

And they want you to update everything just in case. They're really only concerned about making sure charges go through--nit saving you inconvenience.
 
Likes: SoCalTraveler
Jul 13, 2016
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#11
I have a Capital One card. It was skimmed at an airport, and I caught the charges immediately. Cap 1 closed the card, and I waited a week for a new card, with completely new number, and security code. A week late, after only using it twice, a fraudulent charge appeared for GrubHub, very similar to the ones on the old card. After speaking to Cap 1, it appears that Cap 1 transferred a new charge on the old card, to the new card. So, what is the point of a new card, if idiots at the charge company just transfer bad charges to a new card?
 
Likes: AMA
Mar 8, 2018
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#12
On a side note, turn off the auto renewal with Sirius. When it renews, you generally are renewing at the full rack rate. One simple call at renewal time asking if they have any deals will yield around a 50% discount.
 
Jun 24, 2019
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#13
On a side note, turn off the auto renewal with Sirius. When it renews, you generally are renewing at the full rack rate. One simple call at renewal time asking if they have any deals will yield around a 50% discount.
It was on auto renewal for a year package. They then renewed me at retail for a monthly billing. As noted above, the "simple" call at renewal time was three reps for 25 minutes. I am now off auto renewal.
 
Mar 14, 2018
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#14
I have a Capital One card. It was skimmed at an airport, and I caught the charges immediately. Cap 1 closed the card, and I waited a week for a new card, with completely new number, and security code. A week late, after only using it twice, a fraudulent charge appeared for GrubHub, very similar to the ones on the old card. After speaking to Cap 1, it appears that Cap 1 transferred a new charge on the old card, to the new card. So, what is the point of a new card, if idiots at the charge company just transfer bad charges to a new card?
The point is that the fraudsters no longer have your credit card info and so can't make any new charges. Capital One can't distinguish between valid and invalid charges made before the old card was closed, so you will need to dispute any fraudulent ones that make it through.
 
Likes: VoR61
Mar 23, 2015
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#15
Am I missing something? Is the world now so interconnected that my recurring charges are simply transferred? Is my credit card number just handed out willy-nilly?
If it makes you feel any better, your number was NOT provided to Sirius. When Sirius sent the charge through, it was "forwarded" (for lack of a better word) to the new number associated with your old card).
 
Mar 14, 2018
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#16
Am I missing something? Is the world now so interconnected that my recurring charges are simply transferred? Is my credit card number just handed out willy-nilly?
If it makes you feel any better, your number was NOT provided to Sirius. When Sirius sent the charge through, it was "forwarded" (for lack of a better word) to the new number associated with your old card).
 
Jun 24, 2019
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#17
Am I missing something? Is the world now so interconnected that my recurring charges are simply transferred? Is my credit card number just handed out willy-nilly?
If it makes you feel any better, your number was NOT provided to Sirius. When Sirius sent the charge through, it was "forwarded" (for lack of a better word) to the new number associated with your old card).
My number was provided to Sirius. The reps could even see the last 4 digits.
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
20,130
19,012
113
New York
www.promalvacations.com
#18
Mel, I am right with you. I don’t think this should be done- it should be up to the customer to go to the payers and give them the new card number for recurring payments.

I think I’d file a complaint with my State Banking Authority. What’s the point of reporting a missing or stolen card if they are going to put recurring charges through?
 
Mar 14, 2018
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#19
Except for "willy-nilly", that's exactly what happens. And Visa did provide the new number to Sirius.

When your card number is changed, Visa may provide it to "credential on file" merchants ie those where you've authorized the merchant to store your payment details.

Changing your credit card number does not change the authorizations you've granted.
 

JVillegirl541

Verified Member
Nov 21, 2014
3,829
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#20
Except for "willy-nilly", that's exactly what happens. And Visa did provide the new number to Sirius.

When your card number is changed, Visa may provide it to "credential on file" merchants ie those where you've authorized the merchant to store your payment details.

Changing your credit card number does not change the authorizations you've granted.
Yes THIS Exactly !