Lufthansa incorrectly charged me and is ignoring my messages!

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Jul 27, 2016
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#21
It's been almost a month since I last updated this thread and I have a new update. I just received another response from Lufthansa. (See above for the last response I received earlier this month.

The latest response that I just received is the following:

"We were sorry to note that our previous correspondence did not meet your expectations.

At the same time, please let me explain you that Most Significant Carrier rule applies on each portion of an itinerary where baggage is through checked (from where a passenger checks a bag to the point the passenger collects the bag). Baggage rules of the Most Significant Carrier are applicable from the point of "baggage check-in" until the next stop-over. In this case, your baggage was checked from Barcelona to Tokyo.

In case LH determines the Free Baggage Allowance (FBA) of a journey, the Piece Concept of LH applies per checked portion of the baggage (Note: exceptions may apply to/from the U.S. and Canada).

The FBA shall always be handled as shown on the respective ticket or the passenger receipt.

A passenger may carry some baggage free of charge, subject to LH conditions and limitations which are mentioned in the ticket and according to the terms of Lufthansa. The weight of each piece of baggage must not exceed 32 kg.

We appreciate this may not be the response you were anticipating; however our position in this instance is clear."


I'm sorry but am I missing something here? I have sent them the receipt and how they incorrectly charged me but it seems like they are still confused? Do they not understand this was a Award Ticket purchased through United and even the Lufthansa agent at the check in counter was confused? This is really frustrating.... 400 euros is a lot of money and they have held it from me for 3 months now!
It sounds like they're saying that Lufthansa was the "Most Significant Carrier" on your trip, which is a bizarre position to take for a BCN-FRA-MUC-NRT trip. Yes, two of the three segments are on LH, but nearly 90% of the mileage is on ANA.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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#22
It seems like they are saying that the charges applied were correct since that's what it was. Even though I was very clear with them in the email that even the Lufthansa check-in agent did not know what the charges were and incorrectly applied their own Lufthansa's European baggage prices instead of ANA's.

Also, if you look on Lufthansa's website about the Most Significant Carrier. It's fairly clear that Munich to Tokyo is the most significant one and that there is no argument to be made there:

https://www.lufthansa.com/us/en/MOST-SIGNIFICANT-MARKETING-CARRIER

What should I do?
 
Oct 25, 2017
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#23
It sounds like they are saying they can’t control what EVA charges for luggage. Could the fee have been because of the EVA flight?
No, the 400 euro fee (150 for the second checked bag and 250 euros for the third overweight checked bag) was Lufthansa's DOMESTIC European baggage prices. I wanted to be charged ANA's baggage prices and that's clearly what I should have been charged according to LH's policies.

It does not make sense why Lufthansa keeps trying to make it seem like they are correct... why would I be only allowed one checked bag for free and be forced to pay for the second checked bag for an international flight! In addition, the Lufthansa check in agent at Barcelona airport was extremely confused on what to charge me and seemed like she randomly chose numbers from the domestic LF policy which she clearly did!

I really want to receive my refund and it has been nearly 3 months without any progress made. 400 euros ($475 USD) is a lot of money and I want it back!

This might make more sense to people who are confused:

My three baggage upon check-in at Barcelona:

1) Baggage under 23kg
2) Baggage under 23kg
3) Baggage over 23 kg but below 32kg

ANA's baggage policy (Most Significant Carrier) - What I should have been charged:
1) Baggage under 23kg - First checked bag, FREE
2) Baggage under 23kg - Second checked bag, FREE
3) Baggage over 23 kg but below 32kg - Third checked bag, OVERWEIGHT (45 euros) + THIRD CHECK BAG (150 euros)
Total: 195 euros (What I should have been charged)

Instead, this is what I was charged and what was Lufthana's European baggage policy:

1) Baggage under 23kg - First checked bag, FREE
2) Baggage under 23kg - Second checked bag, 150 euros
3) Baggage over 23 kg but below 32kg - Third checked bag, OVERWEIGHT and EXTRA PIECE (250 euros)
Total: 400 euros (What I was INCORRECTLY charged)
 
Oct 25, 2017
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#25
What they seem to be telling you is two of the three segments were on LH- this LHs charged apply, not the other airlines.

And according to the link you posted showing the IATA tier breakdowns- their assessment is correct.
I'm sorry but where are you inferring that their assessment is correct? Neil, I am confused as earlier in the thread you agreed with the general consensus that Lufthansa made an error.

According to the most significant route:
  1. The most significant route is the one that crosses a tariff area first. Exception: In case you cross all three tariff areas during your journey, the most significant route is always the route between TC1 and TC2.
  2. If the 1st condition does not apply, the most significant route is the one that crosses a sub-area first.
  3. If the 2nd condition does not apply, the most significant route is the one that crosses an international border first.
  4. If the 3rd condition does not apply, and no international border is crossed, the most significant route is the first route.
Barcelona to Frankfurt (Lufthansa)
Frankfurt to Munich (Lufthansa)
Munich to Tokyo (ANA) - The most significant route since it crosses a tariff area first from Tariff Area 2 to Tariff Area 3. This is clear!

Also, according to the baggage rules set by Lufthansa - https://www.lufthansa.com/us/en/Free-baggage-rules

Which free baggage regulations apply to checked baggage in the case of journeys operated by several airlines?(1)
When booking a journey with several airlines the free baggage regulations of the airline which flies the most significant route of the journey (usually the longest route geographically) under whose flight number this route has been booked apply. For these purposes it is irrelevant which airline actually operates the flight.

So, in my case, the most significant route is Munich to Tokyo.

Also, I have attached a picture of the baggage charges I should have been charged according to the website I made the reservation through.
 

Attachments

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Neil Maley

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#26
I referring to the link you posted showing the tarriIf zones.

Have you taken this all the way up the corporate executives at Lufthansa? You should be writing one at a time leaving a week in between to try to get them to agree with you.
 
Jul 27, 2016
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#27
What they seem to be telling you is two of the three segments were on LH- this LHs charged apply, not the other airlines.

And according to the link you posted showing the IATA tier breakdowns- their assessment is correct.
How do you get that? Maybe I'm missing something, but from that link, I see "The most significant route is the one that crosses a tariff area first."

The first tariff area change is from 2 to 3 (Europe to Asia), and that takes place on ANA, so ANA's baggage rules should apply.

Just to be clear, @endsee, you just changed planes in Frankfurt and Munich, correct? No stopovers? And this was all on one ticket?
 

Neil Maley

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Dec 27, 2014
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#28
I was referring to her statement she has a LAYOVER in Frankfurt and Munich. A layover and a connection (or stop over) are not the same. A layover indicates you stayed on in Frankfurt/Munich. a connection or stop over means you sat in the airport for your next flight.

If she only connected - you are correct. If she stayed over - thats a different story.
 
Likes: VoR61
Jul 27, 2016
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#29
I was referring to her statement she has a LAYOVER in Frankfurt and Munich. A layover and a connection (or stop over) are not the same. A layover indicates you stayed on in Frankfurt/Munich. a connection or stop over means you sat in the airport for your next flight.

If she only connected - you are correct. If she stayed over - thats a different story.
Looking at the terminology that LH uses on their site, they define "stopover" as "a stay or a break in a journey of more than 24 hours." So, they're saying that a stopover is NOT the same thing as a connection, quite the opposite.

I had assumed she was just changing planes, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to check her baggage through to Tokyo at all...
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
12,782
12,758
113
New York
www.promalvacations.com
#30
Looking at the terminology that LH uses on their site, they define "stopover" as "a stay or a break in a journey of more than 24 hours." So, they're saying that a stopover is NOT the same thing as a connection, quite the opposite.

I had assumed she was just changing planes, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to check her baggage through to Tokyo at all...
She needs to confirm what she means because that is the most important thing to determine where the first tariff area is.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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#31
Thanks for all your input. First of all, please refer to me as a "he" because I am a guy haha.

And yes, I just changed planes in Frankfurt and Munich and the whole 3 flights was booked under ONE ticket through United.com Award travel. Otherwise I would not have been able to check my bag from Barcelona all the way through to Tokyo.

Screen Shot 2017-12-28 at 11.50.42 AM.png

Screen Shot 2017-12-28 at 11.51.01 AM.png


Have you taken this all the way up the corporate executives at Lufthansa? You should be writing one at a time leaving a week in between to try to get them to agree with you.
I haven't because I have not been able to find their contact information.
 

Neil Maley

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Dec 27, 2014
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www.promalvacations.com
#32
We have them on top of our pages under Company Contacts:

http://www.elliott.org/company-contacts/lufthansa-airlines/

Since you have already dealt with Customer Service, write to the first executive shown.

Send them the info you have here, including their own website information and explain why you believe their denial is incorrect. Ask them to explain why you are incorrect.

Give the first executive a week to respond. If he or she says no again without explaining why you are wrong- move to the next. Repeat weekly going up the chain.

Let us know what happens.
 

John Galbraith

Staff Member
Director
Jan 22, 2017
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Poole
#33
Hi Endsee,

When you write to Sharon Murphy (the first executive contact) make sure you include the reference number or feedback ID. Lufthansa specifically contacted us to provide the executive contacts and to tell us to advise people to include the ID or reference number.
 

Neil Maley

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Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
12,782
12,758
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New York
www.promalvacations.com
#35
Thank you both for your help. I have emailed the top person the contact list and I will wait a week.
You didn’t write to the CEO did you? We recommend starting at the BOTTOM of the executive chain and moving up weekly. If you go to the top first and they refuse- you have no one else to appeal to.

Sharon Murphy should have been the one you write to.

Oddly her office is half hour from where I live
 

John Galbraith

Staff Member
Director
Jan 22, 2017
336
530
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Poole
#36
You didn’t write to the CEO did you? We recommend starting at the BOTTOM of the executive chain and moving up weekly. /QUOTE]
Hopefully what Endsee meant was they have emailed the person listed at the top of the contact list which is Sharon.
 
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Neil Maley

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Dec 27, 2014
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www.promalvacations.com
#38
Ok. Give Sharon a week to reply (because of the New Years holiday, I’d give it 2 weeks in case she is on vacation). If you don’t receive a response or any help- move to the next executive and tell them you wrote to Sharon and received no help. Repeat weekly if necessary and let us know how you make out.
 
Dec 9, 2017
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#39
It's been almost a month since I last updated this thread and I have a new update. I just received another response from Lufthansa. (See above for the last response I received earlier this month.

The latest response that I just received is the following:

"We were sorry to note that our previous correspondence did not meet your expectations.

At the same time, please let me explain you that Most Significant Carrier rule applies on each portion of an itinerary where baggage is through checked (from where a passenger checks a bag to the point the passenger collects the bag). Baggage rules of the Most Significant Carrier are applicable from the point of "baggage check-in" until the next stop-over. In this case, your baggage was checked from Barcelona to Tokyo.

In case LH determines the Free Baggage Allowance (FBA) of a journey, the Piece Concept of LH applies per checked portion of the baggage (Note: exceptions may apply to/from the U.S. and Canada).

The FBA shall always be handled as shown on the respective ticket or the passenger receipt.

A passenger may carry some baggage free of charge, subject to LH conditions and limitations which are mentioned in the ticket and according to the terms of Lufthansa. The weight of each piece of baggage must not exceed 32 kg.

We appreciate this may not be the response you were anticipating; however our position in this instance is clear."


I'm sorry but am I missing something here? I have sent them the receipt and how they incorrectly charged me but it seems like they are still confused? Do they not understand this was a Award Ticket purchased through United and even the Lufthansa agent at the check in counter was confused? This is really frustrating.... 400 euros is a lot of money and they have held it from me for 3 months now!

This is a classic boilerplate reply that they use to hoodwink their prey, all they do is edit, copy, paste and click reply.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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#40
I have sent an email to all three of the Lufthansa contacts, starting from Sharon and the ending with the CEO. No response from any of them nor Lufthansa customer service. I'm still out a couple hundred dollars and it has been 4 months!