Hewlett Packard unwilling to follow federal law regarding warranty

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May 1, 2021
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My name is Jeffrey Merriman. Following, please find the BBB complaint I filed in regards to Hewlett Packard. As you will see, this has been ongoing since January 2020.

I am not sure if thus is the type of issue you can help with. As you will see, HP is not willing to honor their terms and conditions of their Care Pack warranty, or the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act.

I am guessing, that perhaps the reason for not wanting to replace the unit, is that it was rather expensive having always using small business computers and a replacement due to the quality might be something they would rather not do.

There comes a time when an issue becomes a matter of principle, not addressing the three items I have requested. Particularly the Magnusson -Moss Warranty Act. At this point, a replacement would be a bonus and very much needed.

I have on set Alzheimer's and have depended on this machine in writing a book ( among many other important tasks ) on my families journey this challenge they so gracefully deal with . I thank you in advance for your patience should I get on any bunny trails.

If I am off base, please tell me and why so you do not waste precious time needed helping others. I will be good with that, as you will see, I have been attempting to get HP to tell me this for over one year.

The BBB closed this case as "Administratively Judged Resolved". There was no resolution as you will see.
My goal is to get a legitimate resolution.

After some research, I found that " Administratively Judged resolved" and "Administratively closed "meant that HP made an attempted in " good faith " to resolve the issue. The only thing done in good faith, is the fact they have kept avoiding the issues. They indeed have been very faithful with their avoidance.

It did not appear that my final response to HP was sent to the company by the BBB. I would like to send it to my usual list of executives , even though as per usual it will probably be ignored. I keep that glimmer of hope it would be read by someone that takes their job seriously.

I have come to the conclusion, that the BBB is far over rated in helping resolve issues. From what I have found, they take on the easy issues, but appear to cave with the more difficult issues in taking on large powerful corporations. Particularly when it comes to federal law. Perhaps they are large donors. And of course, there may be a very good possibility Jeffrey has got it all wrong. The last correspondence with BBB has gone unanswered.



I very much look forward to hearing from you.

Blessings,

Jeffrey



COMPLAINT ACTIVITY REPORT
Case # xxxxxxx BBB of Los Angeles and Silicon Valley


Consumer Info:
Merriman, Jeffrey


Location Involved: (Same as above)

Consumer's Original Complaint :
I am writing in regard to the Hewlett Packard Case number New case Number xxxxxx

I will try to be brief , yet complete as possible . I have early onset Alzheimer's, so please forgive me if I wonder.

In all fairness to HP, I did send one last email and informed them that if I had no reply with explanations to the three items addressed below by March 8,2021 I would be contacting your agency and others. As usual, there was no reply.

The issue at hand since Jan. 2020 involves a laptop/tablet sent to HP for repair while still under warranty. It had been sent in five times without success of complete repair. I do not believe, that it was not for lack of trying on their part. Each time It was sent back for further repair as per the Care Pack 90 day warranty. After the fifth time, I attempted to reach the case manager in charge without success. Either he was no longer in the department or with HP. No one took the initiative to notify me. By the time someone new was assigned to me, the warranty had expired.

I was made an offer to settle ,with a take it or leave it by this date or the case will be closed attitude. I turned it down, because it was not in accordance with the Care Pack 90 Day Warranty ( item one below ). Nor did it conform with the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act ( item 2 below ).

In an email with the offer, it was stated, "unfortunately a direct or refurbished replacement option is not available, as HP no longer manufactures tablets. In reviewing current notebook models, we are currently out of stock on comparable replacements. "
After reading this, I did look on the small business listings, and yes items were out of stock but could still be ordered with a delayed shipping time.


Knowing and understanding supply issues due to the Covid, I would have been obliged to accept and wait until a unit was available for shipment. The option was never offered.


For months, I had asked that the three items listed below be explained to me. Not only were they not explained, but completely ignored until ultimately the case closed.


1) The Care Pack 90 day warranty .... paragraph one starting with line five of the terms and conditions of the 90 day limited warranty on repair service,,,, " During this ninety (90) day limited warranty period, HP will at its option, either repeat the repair or replace the product if this repair event or the replacement product demonstrates defects in materials or workmanship ".

2) The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act enacted by Congress in 1975, which is federal law states:
" If the product or component part, contains a defect or malfunction, the warrantor must permit the consumer to elect either a refund or replacement without charge, after a reasonable number of repair attempts ".

3) The HP Corporate Objectives page states that HP "strives for excellence" ... is a company of "uncompromising integrity" ... which "earns customer respect and loyalty by providing the highest quality and value.
I always believed this, and cannot help but think that the company as a whole does in fact strive for these things. Unfortunately, there seem to be only a select few that for what ever reason overlook these objectives.
The lack of response, pretty much makes item three worthless.

Given the Care Pack warranty terms and conditions, as well as the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, I believe the proper resolution would be to replace the unit a comparable unit without delay. The only way to retain their " excellence, integrity and customer loyalty and respect".

The issues with the computer came at a very inconvenient time. My wife had had a stroke and we were unable to successfully participate in video calls with our doctor. My son lives out of state, and had had a very serious traumatic brain injury and we were unable to make any video calls with him or his wife. Fortunately, they are both doing wonderfully well now.






Consumer's Desired Resolution:
Given the Care Pack warranty terms and conditions, as well as the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, I believe the proper resolution would be to replace the unit a comparable ( or upgraded due to the lost time and repeated inconveniences ) unit without delay. The only way to retain their " excellence, integrity and customer loyalty and respect".

BBB Processing

03/08/2021 web BBB
Case Received by BBB
03/11/2021 PC BBB Case Reviewed by BBB
03/11/2021 Otto EMAIL Send Acknowledgement to Consumer
03/11/2021 Otto EMAIL Notify Business of Dispute
03/24/2021 WEB BBB RECEIVE BUSINESS

RESPONSE : Mr. Merriman has reached out to several agencies regarding his HP Pro x2 612 G1 Tablet (Serial number 5CG5020XWK). He has not been able to furnish a proof of purchase for the unit, but based on the serial number, we've verified this unit was manufactured in January 2015. We've also confirmed he had a 5-year warranty for this unit, which ended in January 2020.
Just prior to his warranty expiring in January 2020, Mr. Merriman contacted HP due to various issues he claimed he was experiencing with the unit. Over the course of 5 repairs, Mr. Merriman sent his unit to HP, had it repaired, and then subsequently had the unit sent back from our service center. After Mr. Merriman maintained he was continuing to have issues with the unit after multiple repairs, he was offered a $250 coupon to use towards purchasing a new unit, which he agreed to. However, the coupon expired without him redeeming it, so he contacted HP and requested a replacement unit in lieu of the coupon. Given the unit was approximately 5+ years old, we declined his request but instead offered to provide him a $300 gift card to use towards purchasing a new unit (or to apply to any purchase made through our online store). This offer still stands and will be available until April 9th, 2021.


03/26/2021 JN EMAIL Forward Business response to Consumer
03/31/2021 WEB BBB BBB REVIEWS CONSUMER

REBUTTAL TO BUSINESS RESPONSE : (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)


As pleased as I was to read the response from HP, I was disappointed but not surprised at best to once again see that they clearly missed the mark and dwelt on the expired warranty, the certificate, the age of the unit and continued to side step the issue(s) at hand.
Unfortunately, like many interviews on television these days, the subject completely side steps the issue or simply walks away as if the person asking the question does not exist. I see this avoidance of tackling the issues I mentioned as being no different.

After reviewing my records, when I contacted HP about the $250 coupon ( which had been offered by the manager at the time for all the inconvenience, not as a resolution ) that had expired, there was no request made by me at that time for a replacement. The manager that originally offered the coupon did say however that the it could be used toward the purchase of any HP branded product if I chose to do so. He attempted to make a few suggestions to get us through the need for video doctors appointments for my wife, knowing it would not replace the unit. I was not successful.

In the meantime, with spring upon us, getting my yard equipment together, I experienced an issue with a piece of equipment. I called the manufacturer, was told after trouble shooting it needed to be replaced. I was told it was still under the extended warranty and was asked for proof of purchase. I explained it was a gift and did not have it. " No problem Jeffrey, the serial number shows the manufacture date and indicates it clearly is covered, and the fact you purchased the extended warranty, you are obviously the owner. The only issue, is that due to the COVID and the spring season which is very busy for us, you may not receive a replacement for 4-8 weeks. In the meantime, we will do our best to help you limp along until the replacement is received by you, feel free to call or email support any time. If you can deal with that, we will get the paper work going, and do our best to expedite the replacement and keep you updated ". What a refreshing experience, imagine my surprise. The warranty was within 2 weeks of the expiration of the extended warranty. The tool is almost seven years old.

If one were to read my original BBB complaint, I did state when asked about the desired resolution, that I believed a replacement was warranted. That was based on the Care Pack 90 warranty terms and conditions as well as the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Nothing else.
In a perfect world, this all could have been solved months ago. My main intention was to hopefully get HP to answer the issues. Where it went from there would be up to them. However............ as imperfect as I and our world are, things don't always go as we would like.

Do I miss my old friend while writing my book in long handwriting my book in long hand? You bet I do.

Finally, after continuing to research and attempt to trouble shoot online in hopes of solving issues with the computer on my own, I found many sites where people had shared their experiences with HP and their outcomes. The vast majority spent their time throwing Hp under the bus. I chose not to do this.
It is my hope that I will be able to continue to truly believe that:
HP "strives for excellence" ... is a company of "uncompromising integrity" ... which "earns customer respect and loyalty by providing the highest quality and value" , as well as to be able to tell friends and former colleagues when they are considering upgrading their equipment that HP is all of the above and know I am being truthful about it.



04/06/2021 OttO EMAIL Forward Consumer Rebuttal to Business

04/16/2021 WEB BBB RECEIVED BUSINESS' REBUTTAL RESPONSE :

Due to the age of Mr. Merriman's unit (6+ years), HP is unable to provide a replacement unit as he has requested. Our offer of a $300 gift card remains open through the end of April 2021.
04/19/2021 JDT EMAIL Send Business' Rebuttal Response to Consumer

04/25/2021 WEB BBB CONSUMER REJECTS BUSINESS' FINAL OFFER : (The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)

When I was a lad, I got into a spat with my grampa, he said " boy, when ever you are asked a tough question don't answer without first thinking it through very carefully. If you neglect to do this, you will do one of two things. If you are anything like me, you will either say something profoundly stupid or something you will definitely regret. This advise served me very well through the years. So, I am taking my time with my response.
HP appears to be bent on the age of the computer among other things. The longer HP drags this issue out, the computer continues to age. Which to them at this point in time is their issue.
It's time they step up and address the three issues I have been inquiring about and they have ignored and disregarded for months...... many months. Had they done this long ago, this issue would have been dust in the wind, long ago. Three simple issues. There has been more than ample time to address the issues.
Shoot.... had someone been willing to say something perhaps as simple as " Jeffrey, I would rather be kissed by a leper than explain anything to you". As silly as it may sound, at least there may have been some honesty.
They are aware of, yet continue to ignore the issues mentioned once ( again ) below. By doing this, they give little legitimacy to the terms and conditions of their very own Care Pack warranty. Let alone their own statements in HP's Corporate Objectives.

.... In one of the emails to me from escalations long ago, it was stated:
"unfortunately a direct or refurbished replacement option is not available, as HP no longer manufactures tablets. In reviewing current notebook models, we are currently out of stock on comparable replacements. "
Open mouth, insert foot. It's difficult at best to put the toothpaste back into the tube once it is out. I've tried it, It doesn't work. Remember what my grampa told me?

.... Their very own Care Pack 90 day warranty terms....... During this ninety (90) day limited warranty period, HP will at its option, either repeat the repair or replace the product if this repair event or the replacement product demonstrates defects in materials or workmanship ".

.... The Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act, which they know is federal law............ " If the product or component part, contains a defect or malfunction, the warrantor must permit the consumer to elect either a refund or replacement without charge, after a reasonable number of repair attempts ".

.... Statements on their Corporate Objectives page .....HP "strives for excellence" ... is a company of "uncompromising integrity" ... which "earns customer respect and loyalty by providing the highest quality and value.

I always believed this, and cannot help but think that the company as a whole does in fact strive for these things.
Unfortunately, the lack of response, pretty much makes the Corporate Objectives worthless.

I do understand, that many companies as well as HP may be concerned a precedence could possibly be set by not only honoring their terms and conditions of their own Care pack, but primarily the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act, federal law. Although perhaps a legitimate concern, it would not have to be if issues were nipped in the bud early on and they were to honor their own policies, without the need to bring federal warranty law into the conversation.

Yikes......... as difficult as it is to believe, it has been over one year. If HP is having a difficult time resolving this case, once they address the items I have been addressing all these (months ), they would very easily find the answer. But they already know that.
I realize many companies might prefer their customers not know about the Magnusson-Moss Warranty act. Perhaps due to the risk of having to be accountable. Or worse yet, avoiding the embarrassment of putting the bottom line before giving the customer what they paid for by purchasing the extended warranty. Having said that, if HP or any other company is unwilling to honor their own Care Pack terms and conditions as well as federal law I am wondering why they would want to offer a warranty at all.

The age of anything , whether it be a toaster or a computer is not an issue as long as it has issues during a warranty period. No matter how long that warranty period might be.

I was actually told by one of the past managers that the unit would continue to be covered within the 90 day Care Pack warranty until the end of its life cycle....... 2022. Go figure. Of course, that would be well beyond a reasonable amount of repair attempts, according to the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act. It has already exceeded what any reasonable person would consider a reasonable amount of repair attempts.
HP itself proved this by not contacting me until after I attempted unsuccessfully more than once to contact the manager in charge during the last 90 day warranty period last fall. Even then, it was only due to me pursuing the issue.

I cannot help but wonder, how CEO Enrique Lores might react if he were to be in need of an explanation for something simple, yet important and it were not given, at least in a reasonable amount of time what the reaction might be. I am guessing that there would have to be some accountability, perhaps loss of position or even employment. At the very least, perhaps a good talking to about responsibility let alone integrity.

I have made several attempts to contact Mr. Lores as well as other HP executives directly with both registered and certified letters as well as emails. After inquiring the status of those attempted communications, no one has had the common courtesy to make an attempt at contacting me with the status. There were times that an escalations manager would contact me, and never acknowledged the inconvenience and the patience I showed.

Way back when, one manager did acknowledge the inconvenience and made the original offer of a credit. Not as a resolution, but as a nice gesture to perhaps find something to to use in the interim until the problems with the unit were solved. He was hoping I might be able to successfully have video appointments with our doctor after my wifes stroke. Perhaps that was why he was no longer on the case, I certainly hope not.

Like the above items, any inconvenience was simply ignored. It surprises me, how many " managers " one has to go through and still not get results, worse yet be completely ignored. I think any reasonable person would might find it appalling that it took a complaint to the BBB ( something I never really wanted to do ) and other agencies before all of my attempts to finally have the three above issues addressed. Yet HP still pretends they do not exist.

There are legitimate issues here and I am of the opinion that Hewlett Packard is no longer the company it used to be if it as a corporation refuses to address those customers that have legitimate issues , honor extended warranties no matter the age of any machine and have made every effort to solve them with politeness and civility. It saddens me they appear have no desire to keep faithful customers ( and give them the incentive to continue recommending HP products ) and appreciate the business they generated for them through out the years. Not just personal systems and equipment, but business equipment as well in past years to colleagues as well as friends and relatives to leave their Macs and upgrade with HP office equipment when the time came to upgrade home offices due to the COVID. Unfortunately, there are those that chose to upgrade with the competition due to this issue.

It appears that the business climate unfortunately may be changing. Perhaps I may be showing showing my age.

Not only do these issues need to be addressed, and explained if HP is going to salvage their integrity, they need to explain ( not just to me, but anyone reading this ) why they are exempt from federal law let alone their very own Care Pack Terms of Warranty should they choose not to .
Should HP not choose to do this, I am here for the duration. At least until I " go 'round the bend ".


04/26/2021 JDT BBB Bureau Judged Case AJR
04/26/2021 Otto EMAIL Inform Consumer Case Closed Answered
04/26/2021 Otto EMAIL Inform Business - Case ADMINISTRATIVELY CLOSED
04/26/2021 Otto BBB Case ADMINISTRATIVELY CLOSED

04/26/2021 BBB MORE INFO RECEIVED FROM THE CONSUMER :

I am confused. Did bbb closed this case or HP. If bbb closed it, why? Did Hp get my last response dated April 25, or is it my last responsibility to forward it to HP?
Can we reopen the case for a final response from HP to mine?
All I need, is for them to explain to me why they are exempt from federal law and honoring their own Care Pack Warranty terms and conditions.
Thank you in advance,
Jeffrey

Edited by moderator to remove personal information and case numbers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Barry Graham

Administrator
Staff Member
Forum Director
Jan 7, 2015
1,379
1,377
It's hard to follow such a long thread, and I suggest you summarize it for the rest of my colleagues to read. However as I understand it, you are trying to get BBB to resolve this for you rather than writing to HP. Am I right? We always recommend that people address their complaints directly with the company, not through a third party. Our company contacts for HP are here https://www.elliott.org/company-contacts/hp/
 

Neil Maley

Staff Member
Forum Moderator
Dec 27, 2014
25,852
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New York
www.promalvacations.com
The BBB can’t do anything to force HP to refund you or provide you with a replacement. All they do is take your complaint, send it to HP and report back to you what they said. Yes it appears the BBB had closed your case. HP offered you a gift card to buy another item and you refused it.

Did you actually have the tablet for almost 5 years before reporting the problems? How much did you pay for the tablet when you bought it?

If this was actually nearly 5 years old when you sent it to be fixed and they no longer make tablets, their offer of a gift card for $350 was generous.
 

VoR61

Jan 6, 2015
4,062
6,486
the United States
Your narrative here totals 4,000 words, which are not easily processed or understood. These are the highlights I see from you post:
  • The issue at hand since Jan. 2020 involves a laptop/tablet sent to HP for repair while still under warranty.
  • It had been sent in five times without success of complete repair.each time as per the Care Pack 90 day warranty
  • After the fifth time, I attempted to reach the case manager without success, and by the time someone was assigned to me, the warranty had expired
  • I was made a take-it-or-leave-it offer "by this date or the case will be closed"
  • In an email with the offer, it was stated, "unfortunately a direct or refurbished replacement option is not available, as HP no longer manufactures tablets. In reviewing current notebook models, we are currently out of stock on comparable replacements "
  • After reading this, I did look on the small business listings, and items were out of stock but could still be ordered with delayed shipping
  • I declined this offer because repair has been attempted five (5) times and is still defective and believe that a warranty replacement is justified
"I have onset Alzheimer's and have depended on this unit in writing a book about my family's journey with this challenge that they have so gracefully deal with. Furthermore, my wife had had a stroke and we were unable to successfully participate in video calls with our doctor. My son lives out of state, and had had a very serious traumatic brain injury and we were unable to make any video calls with him or his wife."

In my opinion, Jeffrey, the remainder of your narrative will not be helpful in obtaining a replacement or a refund. When you're seeking a favorable response, it's important to avoid the use of inflammatory words. The facts should be presented in a concise manner that can be easily read in under 5 minutes, followed by a polite, reasonable request. Negative comments may, in fact, invoke negative responses.

Your next step, I believe, should be to escalate this VIA EMAIL using this link: Hewlett Packard
send them only the highlights that describe your experience - the things they "need to know"
do not include attachments - - offer instead to send them upon request (the might be "undeliverable" otherwise)
be sure to start at the lowest level and give each contact one (1) week to respond before escalating to the next level

Following these steps will increase the likelihood that your email will be read and that it can be understood in 3-4 minutes

This is an email example for you to consider:
"I am reaching out to you because my efforts to resolve an issue have been unsuccessful
(insert the highlights I provided above)​
I am respectfully requesting ______________ (state whether you wish a replacement of a full refund)

Thank you for your time and consideration - I respect that you are very busy"


Be VERY polite and trust the executives to process the timeline and hopefully decide in your favor

Best wishes and do keep us posted on your appeal progress . . .
 
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jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
11,035
13,200
San Francisco
If it's at all possible, contact a media ombudsman ... I think your case would be of great public interest. This is about the only way to get HP to behave ethically. I stopped doing business with them years ago.
 
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AMA

Verified Member
Dec 11, 2014
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I stopped reading after " As you will see, HP is not willing to honor their terms and conditions of their Care Pack warranty, or the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act." Please make a SHORT, bullet-pointed list of the top 7 ssues or problems you are having and your desired resolution.
 
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May 1, 2021
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Thank for all your replies. I am new at this type of thing. I will try respond to each of you starting with Barry:
The BBB has closed the case, I have been writing to HP for months.

Next, Neil:
I was aware of the purpose of the BBB. I used that to get their attention back and it worked. I had no expectations from the BBB other than that. There had been several repairs made during the five year period. Yes, HP did state that they no longer make tablets. They do however make replacements in a different format. My tablet was detachable, and the replacement units are a " 2 in one "..
I somewhat agree, the $300 card to some would be considered generous. The point here, are the 90 day warranty terms and conditions and the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act and the avoidance of them. I never asked for a replacement. It was required by the BBB to state a resolution. That was only based on the 90 day terms and Mag-Moss. Nothing else. A replacement would be a bonus.

Next, VoR61:
My apologies for the novel. The help page I believe said there was no character limit. I just wanted anyone to know what the final BBB outcome was. I had hope it might be helpful. I agree with what yo have stated. That being said, I have already done as you suggest ( it was a very helpful had I not done it already) I always write, set it aside and pick it up later I read your thread, set aside picked it up later and got a lot from it. Thank you.

Next, Jsn55:
Not sure how far I am able to take this as far as your suggestion. What I have done so far has been challenging. Appreciate your input. Thank you

Next AMA:
Once again, apologize for the novel. I was wanting to make sure you folks knew the full scope of things. I have tried my best not to include Blah Blah.

Next, Jeffrey:
Thank you for the great suggestions. In my previous communications, with HP, I have always strived for focusing on the positive and avoiding anything not complimentary. I try to put myself in the place of the reader. I have, already used your HP resource contact page without success. I do hope, I have not used anything inflammatory .

I have to admit though as much as I will keep pursuing this matter, I cannot help but get the feeling that perhaps my using this forum might take up too much of your teams time and may be challenging at best for me to keep up on a regular basis. I had some say " Jeffrey, you should have a bog about your challenges with Alzheimers. After discussing it with family and close friends, general consensuses was perhaps I would be better being a reader.

All of you have encouraged me however.

It has never really been about a replacement, as nice as that would be. Its been about HP not being willing to be honest not only with me, but all the customers that have gone through the same issue and just had to give up. Just for referenced, the 5 year Care Pack extended warranty for my type of computer is about $600. That is what I always purchase. The consumer deserves better from any company.

Blessings,

Jeffrey
 

Sam

Jan 22, 2015
220
468
Colorado
While there is no character limit, most peoples eyes will glaze over and will not read anything that is too long. That includes customer service reps, who read the emails all day.
If possible, put your complaint using bullet points and make it as concise as possible.
 
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Alexander Pahany

Staff Member
Forum Moderator
Jan 6, 2021
482
1,677
Houston, TX
While there is no character limit, most peoples eyes will glaze over and will not read anything that is too long. That includes customer service reps, who read the emails all day.
If possible, put your complaint using bullet points and make it as concise as possible.
@VoR61 ’s example in Post #4 is perfect for this; consider using it for your future correspondence. Alternatively, as mentioned by @jsn55 , try sending the example letter to the consumer reporter for your local television stations and/or newspaper.
 

Comicman

Jul 13, 2020
855
1,791
My apologies for the novel.
Problem is that most readers do not get very far in your novella before they move on. So in the end nobody gets any knowledge from the post if none read the post.
So what you are saying you bought a 5 year service plan and as 5 years has not past they will not fix or replace your item as they are supposed to?
 
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May 1, 2021
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Problem is that most readers do not get very far in your novella before they move on. So in the end nobody gets any knowledge from the post if none read the post.
So what you are saying you bought a 5 year service plan and as 5 years has not past they will not fix or replace your item as they are supposed to?
I purchased the five year onsite service plan. I used it many times. The unit was serviced again just before the plan expired, but I was for some reason required to send it in. It was not fixed. It was sent back four times after covered under warranty 90 day repair terms and conditions. After forth time ( making it the fifth time ), relations tanked with HP. When I began inquiring why they were not honoring the warrant 90 day repair terms and the Mag-Moss Warranty act, I was entirely ignored with the exception of the gift certificate which was originally offered by the previous escalations manager for all the inconvenience (and not being able to have video dr. appts after my wifes strokes) during the continued repairs. Not as a resolution.
 
May 1, 2021
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@VoR61 ’s example in Post #4 is perfect for this; consider using it for your future correspondence. Alternatively, as mentioned by @jsn55 , try sending the example letter to the consumer reporter for your local television stations and/or newspaper.
I live in a very rural area, a distance from a large city with those options available. Perhaps I will do some looking around to see if there are any options. I am not by any means looking for revenge. Perhaps A bit of public exposure might help. All I want are answers. If I can get one that makes sense, great. Mission accomplished.
 
Feb 21, 2018
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Jeffrey, I can only imagine how frustrating the situation has been. I do think, though, that a step back and view of the bigger picture is needed to put this into a bit of perspective.

I agree that a Company should honor the warranty that they sell but in the case of technology equipment, it WILL fail at some point, and warranty or no warranty, it just won't be able to or make sense to repair. That you got five years out of a tablet is actually pretty good - I feel fortunate to get three years out of most computer technology.

It sounds like the way your warranty worked, once the unit went out for repair, the repair was then warranted for 90 days...and then this final repair just couldn't be accomplished. The $300 dollars offered is (as others have already stated) very generous as it represents a fair amount of compensation for what was likely a very out-dated tablet that had already been repaired multiple times.

I would see if the offer of $300 is still valid and accept it, and put it towards newer/better/faster technology.
 
May 1, 2021
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Dear msmayor,

This machine is not a tablet per se, it is a high end business laptop that happens to have a detachable tablet.
The main issue I have had, is that I was told by the escalations manager that offered me the first certificate for the inconvenience ( which that itself was unexpected ) told me that the policy of the 90 day terms of warranty was that the unit could still be repaired within that time period if necessary until the units end of life cycle which is Jan. 2022.

The last time I tried to contact him about having to send it back was in last August of 2020. I never heard back until I was notified he was no longer either with HP or that department, then it was ooops your time is up, the warranty expired. I was only notified due to my persistence in attempting to contact him.

Having said that, I very much appreciate your comments and suggestion. My only intension here is trying to find out why they would no longer honor that warranty until 2022, as stated. Then the Mag-Moss crossed my path while attempting to find who to contact in HP about why he 90 day warranty terms no longer mattered with continued issues. I would like nothing better than to have my old friend back. So, I've turned back to long hand writing. my book. Ever had one of those times when you can just feel and hear your heart slow down? Who says the old days were so bad?

I will be contacting HP once again, having been told I reached the top as far as they would let me go doesn't mean I will not continue to pursue the matter. There is always some place to go, that extra hidden rung on the ladder. It's a matter of principle. Either they keep their word or they won't. Just tell me and be honest about it, rather than avoid it all together. I would be good with that. And if the warranty terms as well as Mag-Moss are irrelevant to them, so be it.

The business climate has changed, since Meg Whitman was CEO. It doesn't mean integrity has to be sacrificed.

Hope your week goes well.

Blessings,

Jeffrey
 
Feb 21, 2018
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Jeffrey, I honestly feel your frustration...especially as it relates to HP. I may have mentioned a while ago on this site that my son's HP laptop (purchased for college) had a catastrophic power supply failure just a few weeks after passing out of the warranty period. Even if I wanted to get it repaired, I couldn't - because HP stopped making the part needed to fix it. The laptop should have had more life left...I was frustrated that I had to scramble with a lesser-replacement because of final exams for him and the episode really soured me on HP until my emails fell on the right desk. I was offered money towards a replacement, or $150 in gift cards to use at the HP store. I took the gift cards as I'd already replaced the machine, but appreciated that there was recognition the failure was premature.

I cannot quite figure out just how old your technology was, but it is entirely reasonable that your desire to have it 'comparably replaced' just isn't going to work. The value of our technology drops like a stone, much like a car, once the 'new models' come out. A comparable item for replacement would be a refurbished item of the same model you have, likely already aged like yours. If they don't have one, they don't have one...so the $300 offered may very well be the determination of the value today and providing that to you would still be in keeping with making you whole at this point in time.

When I started down my road with HP, I dealt with the Executive Escalations team and was able to reach the very sympathetic ear of 'Mike', who took great care of my situation. I would follow the advice of the folks here - slim down your narrative and reach out to them at [email protected] .
 
May 1, 2021
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Jeffrey, I honestly feel your frustration...especially as it relates to HP. I may have mentioned a while ago on this site that my son's HP laptop (purchased for college) had a catastrophic power supply failure just a few weeks after passing out of the warranty period. Even if I wanted to get it repaired, I couldn't - because HP stopped making the part needed to fix it. The laptop should have had more life left...I was frustrated that I had to scramble with a lesser-replacement because of final exams for him and the episode really soured me on HP until my emails fell on the right desk. I was offered money towards a replacement, or $150 in gift cards to use at the HP store. I took the gift cards as I'd already replaced the machine, but appreciated that there was recognition the failure was premature.

I cannot quite figure out just how old your technology was, but it is entirely reasonable that your desire to have it 'comparably replaced' just isn't going to work. The value of our technology drops like a stone, much like a car, once the 'new models' come out. A comparable item for replacement would be a refurbished item of the same model you have, likely already aged like yours. If they don't have one, they don't have one...so the $300 offered may very well be the determination of the value today and providing that to you would still be in keeping with making you whole at this point in time.

When I started down my road with HP, I dealt with the Executive Escalations team and was able to reach the very sympathetic ear of 'Mike', who took great care of my situation. I would follow the advice of the folks here - slim down your narrative and reach out to them at [email protected] .would determine what ever their
msmayor,

Thank you for the thoughts. All I ever wanted was an explanation. They always avoided it. Usually, when an issue is avoided or worse yet not acknowledged. there is a reason.

My point has always been to be honest. Not have a power struggle.

I have a story.......... I will do my best to be short.

About fifty years ago, I took a course in business college. The first day the instructor walked in took off his suit, hung it on the back of a chair and turned to the blackboard and wrote The customer is always right PE....... the chalk broke. I can still see it now , clear as day . He looked at the chalk, unbuttoned his vest and also hung it up. He adjusted his suspenders and turned back to the black board and wrote PERIOD and made a dot. He turned around and finally spoke. He said " I am ( his name escapes me ) so and so, I am senior vice president of customer relations for Dayton Hudson Corporation. ( The upper crust high end retailer and jeweler of the Midwest at the time ) Are there any questions. "
His whole point was that you always make sure any dissatisfied customer walks away because they you did the best you could for them, making sure to explain what you were going to do for them and why. The bigger the problem, and if they are polite the more you do for them . Without that, they won't be back. By doing that one simple thing they will tell their friends and generate more business in the long run. His biggest point, never forget the word " integrity ".

End of story. .... I realize the business climate is much different today.

This served me well in years of business, I was a handcrafted log home builder. I was fortunate. I had only one client that my employees termed the " client from hell ", always something wrong. . With the issues I had with him, he turned out to be my best reference. Potential clients were shocked he was on the top of my referral list. Most did not go past him. I strived for the word " integrity". It didn't make me better, just different.



All I want from HP is their take on why or why not the 90 day terms and conditions and Mag-Moss and how they apply to their decision. I have a tendency to draw a long pipe sometimes. I've been told that is how I am now. Thank you for you patience if you were able to make through this reply.

My communications in the past with HP year have been polite and to the point. " Just please answer my questions".

Thanks for your patience reading this.

Blessings,

Jeffdrey
 
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Feb 21, 2018
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Jeffrey, you and I share many of the same sentiments on customer service. Treat a customer right, they tell 10 friends...treat a customer bad, they tell the world. Despite rules/procedures/policies, I always believe there is middle ground.

I respect your desire to have the "why" answered, but I don't think you'll get it. I suspect that the only people in ANY company that can fully explain how their warranty complies with Mag-Moss are in the legal department, and you'll never get them to answer unless there's a subpoena compelling a reply. Rank and file customer service won't be able to explain, and even supervisors/managers...if they DO understand...are probably instructed by the lawyers to not comment on it.

My own interpretation of Mag-Moss is that in order to not be in compliance, the company did not provide a clear valid warranty (they did), the item was presented for repair/replace within the warranty and they did nothing (it appears they made a good faith effort), they failed to adhere to the terms of the warranty (the offer of the gift cards is evidence of compliance...they couldn't repair, so they offered to make you whole by providing what they deem 'current value' of the item they couldn't repair).

Companies do things all the time, good and bad, without explaining the whys. It helps keep them out of courtrooms.
 
Jun 24, 2019
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I've read this thread several times. It is not clear to me that the HP Care Pack is a warranty covered by Magnuson-Moss, or a service contract covered by state law. A warranty, for example, must be designated as a full warranty or a limited warranty. While I can see HP care packs on-line, and I've paid for such service in the past, what matters is what the actual terms and conditions were. The difference between a full warranty and a limited warranty might not be critical for OP's issue, or it might be. And on the landing page for HP Care Packs, the word "warranty" is not used.

The issue here is what did HP promise to do for OP in the event that his tablet could not be repaired under the terms of the Care Pack.

(For the record, I met Sen. Magnuson shortly after passage of Magnuson-Moss, and I met Sen. Moss at my college graduation where he was the speaker.)
 

jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
11,035
13,200
San Francisco
msmayor,

Thank you for the thoughts. All I ever wanted was an explanation. They always avoided it. Usually, when an issue is avoided or worse yet not acknowledged. there is a reason.

My point has always been to be honest. Not have a power struggle.

I have a story.......... I will do my best to be short.

About fifty years ago, I took a course in business college. The first day the instructor walked in took off his suit, hung it on the back of a chair and turned to the blackboard and wrote The customer is always right PE....... the chalk broke. I can still see it now , clear as day . He looked at the chalk, unbuttoned his vest and also hung it up. He adjusted his suspenders and turned back to the black board and wrote PERIOD and made a dot. He turned around and finally spoke. He said " I am ( his name escapes me ) so and so, I am senior vice president of customer relations for Dayton Hudson Corporation. ( The upper crust high end retailer and jeweler of the Midwest at the time ) Are there any questions. "
His whole point was that you always make sure any dissatisfied customer walks away because they you did the best you could for them, making sure to explain what you were going to do for them and why. The bigger the problem, and if they are polite the more you do for them . Without that, they won't be back. By doing that one simple thing they will tell their friends and generate more business in the long run. His biggest point, never forget the word " integrity ".

End of story. .... I realize the business climate is much different today.

This served me well in years of business, I was a handcrafted log home builder. I was fortunate. I had only one client that my employees termed the " client from hell ", always something wrong. . With the issues I had with him, he turned out to be my best reference. Potential clients were shocked he was on the top of my referral list. Most did not go past him. I strived for the word " integrity". It didn't make me better, just different.



All I want from HP is their take on why or why not the 90 day terms and conditions and Mag-Moss and how they apply to their decision. I have a tendency to draw a long pipe sometimes. I've been told that is how I am now. Thank you for you patience if you were able to make through this reply.

My communications in the past with HP year have been polite and to the point. " Just please answer my questions".

Thanks for your patience reading this.

Blessings,

Jeffdrey
Dayton-Hudson! The world's best retailer ... although I had no idea we had any upper crust in Minnesota when I was a teenager. I think of them fondly with their superb customer service, merchandising and training. Not to mention their sales. I wish we had more of their ilk ... then I am reminded that they're gone, just gone.
 
May 1, 2021
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Dayton-Hudson! The world's best retailer ... although I had no idea we had any upper crust in Minnesota when I was a teenager. I think of them fondly with their superb customer service, merchandising and training. Not to mention their sales. I wish we had more of their ilk ... then I am reminded that they're gone, just gone.
JSN55,
AHHHHH................. you lit some great memories....... fabulous memories.!!!!!! Remember the Christmas window displays? How 'bout the popcorn shop on 7TH street next to the parking ramp. Or Maud Borup candies next door to them. I still have their original store front windows. We replaced the classic single glazed true divided lite sashes with custom insulated glass we fabricated in our shop. The sashes were so nice, I could not bring myself to pitch 'em into the dumpster. I have them a loft office space ( well storage now ) above the log railing. Still smashing as ever!!!!

Thanks for the light!!
Jeffrey
 
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