Chase Bank Notary

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Jan 13, 2018
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#1
I am a lifelong customer of Chase Bank. I used their Notary to sign a QuitClaim Deed in April, 2016. I need a affidavit stating that this was done, as I've lost a page and am now being sued to include 'fraudulent conveyance. I must be able to prove the intention of that deed, but the Notary is refusing to 'get involved' and will not simply sign an affidavit stating that she did witness and sign this deed. She remembers us clearly, but for some reason is refusing. Chase is claiming that they have no authority to have to do so - I claim that she is a Notary on behalf of Chase Bank and nowhere did it state that she is acting on her own.....on banking hours, on bank time and paycheck. She did not sign this deed during her lunch break, and nobody told me that she is an independent agent. I went to MY bank, and expected to be protected by MY banks Notary when I needed her to simply say so. Chase contends that she is not an agent for Chase and I firmly disagree. What is Chase hiding and why won't they just suggest to her that she testifys in letter that she did notarize this deed?? I am disabled, 60 yr old in another state, acting as my own atty as I cannot afford one, and am about to lose my home over this womans positioning and Chase's protections.


What's your desired resolution? I just need the Notary to sign an affidavit that she did Notarize both signatures and that one page is simply missing, but this exchange did happen!


What's the value of your claim (in US $)? 250000.00 - the value of my home!!!
 

jsn55

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Dec 26, 2014
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#2
Oh, how awful, what a terrible situation. I can see how a notary would refuse to sign an affidavit for action she took that long ago, but notaries are required to keep meticulous records. She should have no problem attesting to the contents of her notarial journal ... listing your name, ID, and exactly what she notarized.

Is it possible that the legal term "affidavit" is what is making Chase balk at this? What you are specifically looking for is proof that the original docs were signed and notarized correctly. Perhaps there's "something else" that she can furnish you to accomplish the same thing as an affidavit would?

It's been a long time since I was a notary, but I was once called into court on a dispute. I had notarized the signatures of two of my clients several years previously. I didn't remember the process itself, but my notarial journal was complete and I was able to truthfully testify that I had never notarized anything for anyone under any circumstances without a photo ID. That seemed to satisfy the judge.
 
Jan 13, 2018
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Oh, how awful, what a terrible situation. I can see how a notary would refuse to sign an affidavit for action she took that long ago, but notaries are required to keep meticulous records. She should have no problem attesting to the contents of her notarial journal ... listing your name, ID, and exactly what she notarized.

Is it possible that the legal term "affidavit" is what is making Chase balk at this? What you are specifically looking for is proof that the original docs were signed and notarized correctly. Perhaps there's "something else" that she can furnish you to accomplish the same thing as an affidavit would?

It's been a long time since I was a notary, but I was once called into court on a dispute. I had notarized the signatures of two of my clients several years previously. I didn't remember the process itself, but my notarial journal was complete and I was able to truthfully testify that I had never notarized anything for anyone under any circumstances without a photo ID. That seemed to satisfy the judge.
Ohhhhh she remembers us clearly. It was only 5 months later that we started the process of asking her to just sign a letter stating that this was the truth. I just called it an affidavit. I've been after her, through Chase for months now - to no avail. Chase claims they have nothing to do with it - and she's just being a jerk about it. I seriously don't know what to do!
 
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Realitoes

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#4
My wife is a notary and what your asking from the notary probably is not possible. A notary is providing a public service, and while they can do this function while working for their employer, how they do it is outside the scope of the employer. State laws may differ on the relationship between a notary and an employer.

A Notary doesn't read the document they are notarizing, except for the certification statement, so will have no knowledge of the exact contents, just the general purpose. They are only certifying the signature information on the document.

The only information they probably will be able to provide is what is documented in notary journal, which more than likely will not list the number of pages. State law dictates what is required to be maintained in the journal. You can and probably will have to subpoena a copy of the journal, if you feel it will help your case.

If you believe the notary has personal knowledge pertinent to your case, then you will probably need to subpoena him/her for a deposition. As this involves a legal matter, you really should consult your attorney.
 
Jan 13, 2018
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That's the point. I can't afford another atty and I'm in a different State. She knows clearly what she notarized. She's really just being a stickler for some reason. I'm thinking perhaps she wants me to pay her to do this. It's horrifying what she's doing - and worse yet, what Chase is allowing her to do.
 
R

Realitoes

Guest
#6
That's the point. I can't afford another atty and I'm in a different State. She knows clearly what she notarized. She's really just being a stickler for some reason. I'm thinking perhaps she wants me to pay her to do this. It's horrifying what she's doing - and worse yet, what Chase is allowing her to do.
Probably because you are trying to involve her in a legal case. In any case, Chase can't force her to do what you want, as her duties as a notary are outside their scope. A notary is appointed by the State.

I'm not sure how you expect her to remember you specifically, notaries deal with many people each day.
 

jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
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#7
My wife is a notary and what your asking from the notary probably is not possible. A notary is providing a public service, and while they can do this function while working for their employer, how they do it is outside the scope of the employer. State laws may differ on the relationship between a notary and an employer.

A Notary doesn't read the document they are notarizing, except for the certification statement, so will have no knowledge of the exact contents, just the general purpose. They are only certifying the signature information on the document.

The only information they probably will be able to provide is what is documented in notary journal, which more than likely will not list the number of pages. State law dictates what is required to be maintained in the journal. You can and probably will have to subpoena a copy of the journal, if you feel it will help your case.

If you believe the notary has personal knowledge pertinent to your case, then you will probably need to subpoena him/her for a deposition. As this involves a legal matter, you really should consult your attorney.
This is about what I remembered. Nobody wants to get involved in a legal matter under any circumstances. Have you asked her directly to furnish you a photocopy of the relevant page in her journal with a simple cover letter? She could just obliterate all the other entries in the interest of privacy. I agree with Realitoes, there's no reason for her or Chase to involve themselves in a legal battle. Sad but true these days.
 
Sep 19, 2015
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#8
Wow this a difficult situation. I have had documents notarized at a bank. These were not official bank documents or had anything to do with banking. The bank has someone willing to notarize a document as a courtesy for its customers. I think it would be a stretch to say she was representing Chase.

I was asked some superficial questions as to the type of document I signed but the notary did not read it. My state does not even require a notary to keep a journal!

A lost page from an original document is problematic if there is no copy anywhere.
And most people walk away from being involved in other legal disputes. I do not see any way other than contacting an attorney.
 
Jan 23, 2015
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#9
I'm a notary but not able to give you any legal advice. That said, what state are you in? I'm in CA and I have to record every notarization I do in my journal. If someone needed me to produce proof of a specific notarization I could certainly provide a photocopy of that line item in my journal. I couldn't tell the person anything specific other than I performed X notarization for them on X day, and that at the time I'd written down the type of document and the nature of the notarial act. If you're in CA, maybe you can ask the notary for a copy of his/her journal entry? Good luck!
 

John Galbraith

Staff Member
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Jan 22, 2017
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#10
Hi Alex,

As others have said I don't think what you are asking for is possible. I am solicitor (lawyer) for a organisation not a law firm. I certify documents often related to my work. Technically under my professional rules that is not done in the course of my employment. But even it was my employer could not force me to sign an affidavit. An affidavit is a statement of truth and it is for me and me only to decide whether I believe what I am signing is true.

Secondly as others have said the requirements for keeping a journal vary. The National Notary Association provides an example journal if a state does not provide guidance. Nowhere does it have a requirement for the number of pages let alone what was on each page.

As Christina has said a lost page from an original document is problematic if there is no copy anywhere. I don't read the pages (just check they match) so if six months later you come to me asking me to sign an affidavit to say the page its a true copy of the original I simply could not do. Sure I could sign to say I remember you and I remember certifying a document but certifying as to its contents? I just couldn't do it.

As Tropical has advised maybe ask for a redacted copy of her journal and you might need some legal advice.
 
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Neil Maley

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Dec 27, 2014
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#11
My wife is a notary and what your asking from the notary probably is not possible. A notary is providing a public service, and while they can do this function while working for their employer, how they do it is outside the scope of the employer. State laws may differ on the relationship between a notary and an employer.

A Notary doesn't read the document they are notarizing, except for the certification statement, so will have no knowledge of the exact contents, just the general purpose. They are only certifying the signature information on the document.

The only information they probably will be able to provide is what is documented in notary journal, which more than likely will not list the number of pages. State law dictates what is required to be maintained in the journal. You can and probably will have to subpoena a copy of the journal, if you feel it will help your case.

If you believe the notary has personal knowledge pertinent to your case, then you will probably need to subpoena him/her for a deposition. As this involves a legal matter, you really should consult your attorney.
Absolutely! My wife was a notary and all they notarize is your signature. They don’t read a document or sign as anything other than that so she cannot possibly do what you are asking because she doesn’t know anything about what your document consisted of.


It is actually illegal for her to do anything other then witness your signature and she could lose her notary license for doing so.
 
#12
The notary may indeed remember you clearly but how can she possibly remember the document she notarized, word-for-word? She could testify that she notarized your signature on "a document" but unless she kept a copy of it, how can she say that it is the same document you are now presenting? Another question comes to mind: Why was the original Quitclaim Deed not recorded in the appropriate Registry of Deeds at the time it was signed and acknowledged?

Is there a reason that you can't sign an identical Deed now and present it for recording, or have there been intervening liens that adversely affect the title? Was there another party who signed the document at the same time you did who is no longer available? Were you the grantor, grantee or both in this Deed?

Lots of questions that need to be answered before we can make sense of this, but the Notary at the bank provided her services as a convenience to the bank's customers. Chase bears no responsibility here and I feel that the Notary is exercising appropriate caution in refusing to get involved in a situation involving a possible fraudulent conveyance.
 

John Galbraith

Staff Member
Director
Jan 22, 2017
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#14
Interesting reading on this subject I found in the Standards of Professional and Ethical Practice:
Good find and says it all.

Under "The Professional Choice" the response to not being handed all the pages is "“I have no intention of reading or divulging information from your documents....,”

And that is the issue they won't have read the pages so can't say what was in the missing page.
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
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Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
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www.promalvacations.com
#15
Interesting reading on this subject I found in the Standards of Professional and Ethical Practice:


See: Article A: Record of Notarial Acts
I just asked my wife about this- she said she was not obligated in our state to keep records like this and she never had any journal or records of what she notarized.

In our state I also have never seen anyone who notarized my signature document it in a journal.

That may be national standards but the notaries are bound by state laws.

Even if the notary had to keep a record she still could not sign an affidavit swearing to what was in the document. Without keeping a copy she couldn’t possibly remember every document that she notarized.

Our writer it seems lost the paperwork and is going to have to find out what he needs to do to replace the missing page with a new document.

I also find Alex’s claim that she is just being a stickler and wants a payoff terrible. Unless she made copies of what she notarized (which you are not supposed to do period) she can’t possibly complete a legal
affidavit. The notary is doing everything right.
 
Jan 6, 2015
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Good find and says it all.

Under "The Professional Choice" the response to not being handed all the pages is "“I have no intention of reading or divulging information from your documents....,”

And that is the issue they won't have read the pages so can't say what was in the missing page.
Agreed. But they do speak of validating (recording?) the number of pages and also recording the purpose (title?) of the document. If those were done for this case, would that be enough? That is unclear to me reading through the thread ...
 
Jan 6, 2015
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#17
I just asked my wife about this- she said she was not obligated in our state to keep records like this and she never had any journal or records of what she notarized.

In our state I also have never seen anyone who notarized my signature document it in a journal.

That may be national standards but the notaries are bound by state laws.

Even if the notary had to keep a record she still could not sign an affidavit swearing to what was in the document. Without keeping a copy she couldn’t possibly remember every document that she notarized.

Our writer it seems lost the paperwork and is going forward have to find out what he needs to do to replace the missing page with a new document.
This publication acknowledges the variations in state law. It's purpose, I gather, is to outline "best practices" (interesting to me for that reason). It clearly delineates the difference.

No state that I saw in my research prohibits recording in a journal. Is it wise to do in a state that does not require it? That's beyond my pay grade ...
 

John Galbraith

Staff Member
Director
Jan 22, 2017
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Poole
#18
Agreed. But they do speak of validating (recording?) the number of pages and also recording the purpose (title?) of the document. If those were done for this case, would that be enough? That is unclear to me reading through
the thread ...
Yes to number of pages and recording the title - such as contracted dated x. But as Neil says it depends upon the state requirements. I don't think it will be enough because also as Neil says the OP has lost a page - the record won't show what was in that page.
 

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Jan 6, 2015
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Yes to number of pages and recording the title - such as contracted dated x. But as Neil says it depends upon the state requirements. I don't think it will be enough because also as Neil says the OP has lost a page - the record won't show what was in that page.
Acutally, what Alex wants is this:

"I must be able to prove the intention of that deed, but the Notary is refusing to 'get involved' and will not simply sign an affidavit stating that she did witness and sign this deed."
 
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