Air France and Delta refund

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jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
11,051
13,253
San Francisco
Thank you for the list, Kate. I hope I'm understanding it all. My colleagues may have more detail to add or clarify. Here is my summary for you to review to answer my questions and make corrections:

We have two distinctly separate bookings. 1) Paris-Africa on AirFrance booked direct by you on AF website for cash. 2) Home-Paris booked by Wells Fargo TA on AF with combo cash and points. Air France, Delta and KLM are partners/code-share/whatever. WF Go Far Rewards Travel Center is TA for WF Rewards program

1) PARIS-AFRICA: Air France cancelled the flights and refunded you. So we are now concerned only with Home-Paris booked by TA.

Please confirm: “Multi-city tix for 5 pax” But AMS-CDG was just a connection on same confirm, right? Flight departed home, connected in AMS and landed in Paris. This was all on one PNR ... but KLM was involved?

2) HOME-PARIS via AMS booked by TA using cash & points. AF billed your CC for cash portion. You had one AF confirmation for 5 tix ... flights were Air France/KLM operated by Delta.

5/12 You cancelled flights with DL. Why didn’t you cancel with TA or AF? Did you have a confirmation number from each airline?

5/13/20 You requested refund from TA for home-Paris flights. AF advises 90-120 days. TA says AF will refund when they receive refund from Delta. If this trip was booked on AF by TA, how did Delta get the money?

You could claim with your travel insurance but they will refund cash portion only, so you’d lose FF points. TA advises to wait for refund of cash and points. I agree. TA paid the airline the cash equivalent of your points. When AF refunds, TA will reinstate the points and refund you the balance that you paid in cash.

12/14/20 TA says AF now owns the tix, I’m not sure how that happened.

1/12/21 – TA reports that AF has agreed to refund, but DL received the payment so AF is “working with” DL.

4/21/21 – TA sending another request for status.

This whole process has taken much too long and you have waited far too long. We need to find out what the problem is. Once you confirm some of the above information, we can figure out your next step. Please let us know.
 
Apr 19, 2021
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I am not sure I answered all your questions in my last entry. Let me try to be a little more specific below. All my comments are in red.

Thank you for the list, Kate. I hope I'm understanding it all. My colleagues may have more detail to add or clarify. Here is my summary for you to review to answer my questions and make corrections:

We have two distinctly separate bookings. 1) Paris-Africa on AirFrance booked direct by you on AF website for cash. 2) Home-Paris booked by Wells Fargo TA on AF with combo cash and points. Air France, Delta and KLM are partners/code-share/whatever. WF Go Far Rewards Travel Center is TA for WF Rewards program. Yes to all this.

1) PARIS-AFRICA: Air France cancelled the flights and refunded you. So we are now concerned only with Home-Paris booked by TA. Correct

Please confirm: “Multi-city tix for 5 pax” But AMS-CDG was just a connection on same confirm, right? Flight departed home, connected in AMS and landed in Paris. This was all on one PNR ... but KLM was involved? It was all on the same confirmation, but we were stopping in Amsterdam for 4 nights before proceeding to Paris. So our planned flight departed US on June 5th, we arrived in Amsterdam on the 6th and our flight to Paris was on June 10th. Delta was the carrier for the home to Atlanta flight, KLM was the carrier from Atlanta to Amsterdam and Amsterdam to Paris, Air France was from Paris to Atlanta on the return and Delta was the carrier from Atlanta back home again.

2) HOME-PARIS via AMS booked by TA using cash & points. AF billed your CC for cash portion. You had one AF confirmation for 5 tix ... flights were Air France/KLM operated by Delta. See my more detailed description of the carriers above.

5/12 You cancelled flights with DL. Why didn’t you cancel with TA or AF? I notified the TA of the cancellation on 5/12/20. Then I called Delta. Since there was only one confirmation number for all the flights, I assumed that by cancelling one, they would all be informed. It seems like they always cancel your connections if you miss an initial one. Did you have a confirmation number from each airline? No, all flights had the same confirmation code.

5/13/20 You requested refund from TA for home-Paris flights. AF advises 90-120 days. TA says AF will refund when they receive refund from Delta. If this trip was booked on AF by TA, how did Delta get the money? The travel agency told me that AF was waiting for Delta to send them their portion of the ticket cost. I don't actually know if that is true. I assumed my ticket price was divided among the various carriers but maybe it doesn't work that way.

You could claim with your travel insurance but they will refund cash portion only, so you’d lose FF points. TA advises to wait for refund of cash and points. I agree. TA paid the airline the cash equivalent of your points. When AF refunds, TA will reinstate the points and refund you the balance that you paid in cash. This is what I am hoping.

12/14/20 TA says AF now owns the tix, I’m not sure how that happened. Perhaps I misunderstood what the agent was telling me. I assumed at the time that they were expediting things by "giving" more control to AF. Is this even possible?

1/12/21 – TA reports that AF has agreed to refund, but DL received the payment so AF is “working with” DL. More like AF is "waiting on" DL.

4/21/21 – TA sending another request for status. Yes and I have not received an update.

This whole process has taken much too long and you have waited far too long. We need to find out what the problem is. Once you confirm some of the above information, we can figure out your next step. Please let us know. Thanks again for your help!
 

jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
11,051
13,253
San Francisco
Wish I had a magic wand, Kate. I know alot about points and miles, but little about how each airline gets paid in a code-share booking. I do believe that no money changes hands until after the flight; the original airline charges your CC and keeps the money. I know airlines have a "central clearing house" for all the money, but I can't remember what it's called. Your situation is a blend of both cash and points/miles. I'm hoping some of my colleagues will know how the "money works" so at least you know who you should be contacting. Have another look @Comicman's post #3 to see if there's some information there that you can use.
 
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Apr 19, 2021
12
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62
Here is an update from several calls I made today:

First I called Air France again since they were the ones to charge my credit card for the flights (vs the travel agency.) They again said that because there was a travel agency record locator involved, I would have to go through the agency. They said the agency was the only entity that could request a refund. I asked if the representative could see any records of previous conversations with either myself or the agency and he said no, there were no "remarks". He added that he would create a "remark" of today's call.

I then called Go Far Rewards again. They have plenty of notes attached to my confirmation #. Jose repeated that Air France had approved the refund and that Go Far Travel Rewards had submitted a request of funds to the airlines with bank information for wiring the reimbursement. He said the agency would not have done this if Air France hadn't indicated they would give a refund. Jose said he would call accounting to find out if the refund had come in yet and if not, he will reach out to the travel agent on record and have them call Air France again for a status update. He is suppose to call me tomorrow, but I have heard that before.

So, according to the Go Far Rewards Center as well as my notes, Air France agreed to the refund on about 1/12/21. Given how long this is taking, I'm still wondering if there is a glitch in the communication and a refund is NOT forthcoming, or if Air France is just taking forever to process their refunds.

I'll keep you posted on updates. In the meantime, thank you, jsn55 and everyone else for your helpful comments and questions, which have helped me clarify how to proceed.
 

Comicman

Jul 13, 2020
882
1,854
The rule with refunds these days is delay delay delay. Maybe it is both.
Did Air France say they had not received a refund request from the OTA?
 

Dwayne Coward

Administrator
Staff Member
Forum Director
Apr 13, 2016
1,069
2,319
St. Louis
Unfortunately, we have received a fairly good number of submissions that this specific airline is delaying refunds, especially those made through a 3rd party.

Also, if these were non-refundable tickets, and you canceled the booking before the airline canceled the flights, any request for a refund would be in accordance with the fare rules, which in these situations normally is a refund of some ofthe taxes paid or to reissue the tickets using the value with one year of the date of purchase. As these were purchased using points, there may be additional fare rules in play. You should ask your travel agent what the specific fare rules provide for in your case.
 

jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
11,051
13,253
San Francisco
Here is an update from several calls I made today:

First I called Air France again since they were the ones to charge my credit card for the flights (vs the travel agency.) They again said that because there was a travel agency record locator involved, I would have to go through the agency. They said the agency was the only entity that could request a refund. I asked if the representative could see any records of previous conversations with either myself or the agency and he said no, there were no "remarks". He added that he would create a "remark" of today's call.

I then called Go Far Rewards again. They have plenty of notes attached to my confirmation #. Jose repeated that Air France had approved the refund and that Go Far Travel Rewards had submitted a request of funds to the airlines with bank information for wiring the reimbursement. He said the agency would not have done this if Air France hadn't indicated they would give a refund. Jose said he would call accounting to find out if the refund had come in yet and if not, he will reach out to the travel agent on record and have them call Air France again for a status update. He is suppose to call me tomorrow, but I have heard that before.

So, according to the Go Far Rewards Center as well as my notes, Air France agreed to the refund on about 1/12/21. Given how long this is taking, I'm still wondering if there is a glitch in the communication and a refund is NOT forthcoming, or if Air France is just taking forever to process their refunds.

I'll keep you posted on updates. In the meantime, thank you, jsn55 and everyone else for your helpful comments and questions, which have helped me clarify how to proceed.
Glad things are moving along, albeit like a glacier. But your issue seems nice and simple now! I think it's very probable that AF approved the refund in January and still hasn't parted with the cash. GoFar paid for your tix in cash, just as any pax would. There should be no additional fare rules involved. It was a 'cash purchase', they've approved the refund. The sad thing is that we don't really trust anything anyone tells us any more.

But we have little choice but to wait. I waited 8 months to see if the IRS had received an amended tax return, not for the refund status ... I couldn't even find out if it had arrived. There were no employees to answer my question. I had no choice but to be patient and hope for the best. When we're awaiting a refund from a travel provider, at least we can ask about it and know (or hope) that it's in process, awaiting the actual cash disbursement.

As a business owner, I totally understand the stance of a travel provider today. Months without revenue, expenses and overhead continue, people are worried about their jobs ... the first priority is to keep the airline solvent. And rightfully so. Millions of people are holding credits for future travel and we all want to USE THEM. I also understand that Air France could tell me that my refund might take a year and I would understand. But most people don't see the big picture, so travel providers just tell them 'lies' to make them go away. The virus insanity seems to be subsiding, people are starting to board airplanes, money is again flowing in ... I'd try to forget about this until maybe the 4th of July. But I'm an optimist and always 'have faith' that things will work out if I've done my part. You've certainly done yours. As always, please keep us posted.
 
Apr 19, 2021
12
6
62
The ticket agent said there were no "remarks" attached to my confirmation number, so he couldn't tell if conversations had occurred or not. That bums me out a bit but I know I talked to AF months ago and that call was not on their records with the confirmation number either. All I can hope for right now is that they keep records somewhere.
Glad things are moving along, albeit like a glacier. But your issue seems nice and simple now! I think it's very probable that AF approved the refund in January and still hasn't parted with the cash. GoFar paid for your tix in cash, just as any pax would. There should be no additional fare rules involved. It was a 'cash purchase', they've approved the refund. The sad thing is that we don't really trust anything anyone tells us any more.

But we have little choice but to wait. I waited 8 months to see if the IRS had received an amended tax return, not for the refund status ... I couldn't even find out if it had arrived. There were no employees to answer my question. I had no choice but to be patient and hope for the best. When we're awaiting a refund from a travel provider, at least we can ask about it and know (or hope) that it's in process, awaiting the actual cash disbursement.

As a business owner, I totally understand the stance of a travel provider today. Months without revenue, expenses and overhead continue, people are worried about their jobs ... the first priority is to keep the airline solvent. And rightfully so. Millions of people are holding credits for future travel and we all want to USE THEM. I also understand that Air France could tell me that my refund might take a year and I would understand. But most people don't see the big picture, so travel providers just tell them 'lies' to make them go away. The virus insanity seems to be subsiding, people are starting to board airplanes, money is again flowing in ... I'd try to forget about this until maybe the 4th of July. But I'm an optimist and always 'have faith' that things will work out if I've done my part. You've certainly done yours. As always, please keep us posted.
I'll definitely let you know if I hear something!
 
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