Air France and Delta refund

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Apr 19, 2021
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I am hoping you can help me collect a refund for a flight scheduled for June of 2020. My family scheduled a safari in Africa a year earlier. I made separate flight arrangements from Europe to Africa and the USA to Europe. One set of tickets was made directly with Air France from Paris to Brazzaville. Another flight reservation from my hometown to Paris via Amsterdam was made with a travel agency, partially using my reward points. These flights were on Air France/KLM operated by Delta.

Air France indefinitely cancelled the Paris to Brazzaville leg of the trip in the spring of 2020 and provided me with a refund very quickly. (Yay Air France!) Since the other tickets were booked through a travel agency, I was told I must use them to collect a refund on the USA to Europe leg. Through numerous calls to the travel agency, they say Air France has said they will refund me for the tickets when they receive a refund from Delta. I have kept notes on all my phone calls, but unfortunately, I have not been communicating with these parties via email. I am concerned that Delta will stall on the refund indefinitely.

As an aside, I was diagnosed with cancer in April of 2020 that would have necessitated the cancelling of the trip anyway. So I was able to collect a refund for the safari through TravelGuard. They will also refund my USA to Paris flight, but using this route, I would then lose my frequent flyer points and only be compensated for the cash I paid out. My travel agency said they can reinstate the points (approximately $3000 worth) AND give me a refund of cash I paid if and when THEY receive one from the airlines.

Thanks for any advice or help you can provide me. Kate
 
May 1, 2018
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You mention that Air France indefinitely cancelled the Paris to Brazzaville leg of the trip. Who canceled the US to Europe leg of the trip? Did Delta cancel or did you cancel? Also, was your Delta ticket a non-refundable fare?

If you canceled a non-refundable fare then a refund is not forthcoming from Delta.
 
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Comicman

Jul 13, 2020
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Since the other tickets were booked through a travel agency
Unfortunately this is quite true. You can only get a refund from Air France through your travel agent unless Air France charged your credit card directly.
As the flights from the USA to France were flying at the time your tickets were you run into slight problems.
Did your travel agent cancel this flight because the 2nd leg was no longer possible?
Did you cancel this flight?
Did no one cancel this flight?
Was this flight booked non refundable ( i suspect it was as refundable tickets were quite expensive)?
You are lucky you will get your points back with out paying fees ( I had to pay fees to get mine back along with losing the fees I paid to book it).
I suspect the problem here is you are just not due a refund (you canceled not the airline). All that you are due is a future travel credit ( a voucher). What has your travel agent done. You might want to see if they have asked for a voucher.
Do you have travel insurance? If so you might have coverage when one separately book flight in a chain is canceled.
The real problem is that your travel agent (to save money) booked 2 separate tickets. One for your transatlantic flight and another for your trans Mediterranean flight. As 2 separate tickets , each ticket has different terms and rules.
So again I think as you canceled the airlines does not owe you a refund in the trans Atlantic flight.
As the airline for your Africa canceled your flight before you canceled your flight, you were due and received a refund.
 
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jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
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San Francisco
The big question here is from whom did you buy your tix? What entity charged your credit card? It looks like your travel agent booked a Delta flight on AF/KLM metal. You used a real travel agent, right ... not an online booking service? You had confirmation numbers from both DL and AF, right? If that's the case, the refund should buzz right along. Delta is known for exemplary customer service, so I don't think they're stalling. Your SkyMiles should have been redeposited almost immeditely, and a refund should be processed by AF/DL ... I'm not sure how the money goes back and forth with partner airline purchases. The cash part of the purchase should be refunded to your credit card. I don't know how/when the travel agent gets paid, but your TA should be able to tell you. I think there's a glitch/misunderstanding somewhere along the way.

I just went through the same scenario, minus the travel agent. My miles and cash were refunded by Delta so quickly it made my head spin. I had booked on Delta's website for a DL flight operated by AirFrance. Two confirmation numbers, two flight numbers on each leg. I paid for my tix with my DL AmEx which allows you to use your SkyMiles to reduce the cash portion of the purchase. So I think there's a little hang-up in your case somewhere.

It would be very helpful if you made a list of the facts in chronological order. Leave out all the extraneous details and describe the precise purchase for which you need a refund. This should be easy to solve and I'm glad you posted with us.
 
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jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
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As I process your story, it seems to me that AF/KLM never received any money from DL. I think they collect that after the flight. So not sure what your TA is telling you; is s/he reputable and someone you've worked with before? At least two of my colleagues on this forum are TAs (real ones) so they should be along soon to straighten this out if I've gotten it wrong.
 
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Apr 19, 2021
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Your replies are so helpful even if they don't get my points back! I am now thinking I may have assumed that because my end destination was canceled by Air France, my other flights would automatically be refundable too. But of course, the Air France computer system, not to mention Delta, had no way of necessarily connecting the dots between the two itineraries. In June, the pandemic was in full force, no one I knew was traveling, and I was in the middle of radiation treatments. I may have forgotten to call Delta to say we wouldn't be on the flight! Yikes, my bad to say the least! Is there any way to check if the flights I was booked on actually occurred? I really appreciate all of your responses!
 
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Comicman

Jul 13, 2020
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If you never canceled the other flight you might have been listed as a no show. If this is so, it is quite possible as the flight took off it did so with your money.
 
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Your travel agent will know how to verify whether your flight actually occurred or not. If it did, your only option might be an "artful begging" letter to the airline explaining the circumstances politely and requesting a refund, acknowledging that this is an exception to their normal policy. A well-written letter that lands in the right person's email has been known to do the trick, but be aware throughout that if the flight occured, they have no obligation to refund you, regardless of the circumstances.
 
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Neil Maley

Staff Member
Forum Moderator
Dec 27, 2014
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www.promalvacations.com
Your replies are so helpful even if they don't get my points back! I am now thinking I may have assumed that because my end destination was canceled by Air France, my other flights would automatically be refundable too. But of course, the Air France computer system, not to mention Delta, had no way of necessarily connecting the dots between the two itineraries. In June, the pandemic was in full force, no one I knew was traveling, and I was in the middle of radiation treatments. I may have forgotten to call Delta to say we wouldn't be on the flight! Yikes, my bad to say the least! Is there any way to check if the flights I was booked on actually occurred? I really appreciate all of your responses!
What travel agency did you book through?
 
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Apr 19, 2021
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Wells Fargo Go Far Rewards Travel Center is who I used. When I call Wells Fargo Rewards, they funnel me to a travel agency that handles their clients.

I am looking at my notes. They say I talked to a Melissa at the Go Far Rewards on 5/12/20 and that they requested a refund from Air France on 5/13/20. My notes say I talked to Delta on 5/12/20 as well. So I did cancel the flights. Whew! (Obviously my memory is not the best, haha!)

My notes also say that on 1/5/21, I spoke the travel agency about the refund and they said they would contact Air France. The agency called back on 1/12/21 and said Air France will provide a refund but they are working it out with Delta because they actually received the money.

Air France was the stated airline for all flights (with other "operators") and by cancelling their Africa leg, technically the other flights became irrelevant to me. Does this make a difference even though the ticketing wasn't all done together?

I can't believe there are nice people out there volunteering their time to help me figure out this problem. Thank you all!
 
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Apr 19, 2021
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Oh - this may make some sense to some of you. On 12/14/20 I spoke to Nancy at the travel agency. She said the airline (Air France) now owns the ticket so the agency wasn't following the status. She called Air France however, (while I was on the line) and they said they would get back to her. I did not hear back from the travel agency until I called them on 1/5/21 and had the conversation I mentioned earlier.
 

jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
11,040
13,231
San Francisco
"Wells Fargo Go Far Rewards Travel Center is who I used. When I call Wells Fargo Rewards, they funnel me to a travel agency that handles their clients.

I am looking at my notes. They say I talked to a Melissa at the Go Far Rewards on 5/12/20 and that they requested a refund from Air France on 5/13/20. My notes say I talked to Delta on 5/12/20 as well. So I did cancel the flights. Whew! (Obviously my memory is not the best, haha!)

My notes also say that on 1/5/21, I spoke the travel agency about the refund and they said they would contact Air France. The agency called back on 1/12/21 and said Air France will provide a refund but they are working it out with Delta because they actually received the money.

Air France was the stated airline for all flights (with other "operators") and by cancelling their Africa leg, technically the other flights became irrelevant to me. Does this make a difference even though the ticketing wasn't all done together?"
This is why we need to know the details. You booked through an online service that Wells Fargo uses. Just like I book through Expedia when I use my Chase points. Completely unwillingly, but I cannot control how Chase books awards. When people say "travel agent", it is assumed that you dealt with a real travel agent, an expert in travel. One who can unravel a situation like yours and come to a positive conclusion. You didn't book with SkyMiles, you booked with WF points. A completely different ballgame. If you want to make that list, we can probably help. I just unravelled an ugly little situation with Delta for my sister, and I know that it's hard work explaining a problem to another person. And it's equally hard to dissect the whole story and figure out a game plan. It's impossible for us to tell you what you need to include, just tell your story concisely. Once we read the list we know exactly what questions to ask you. Your situation is complex and right now there are just too many loose ends for us to give meaningful advice.
"I can't believe there are nice people out there volunteering their time to help me figure out this problem. Thank you all!"
This is VERY nice to hear. We love to share our experience to assist travellers with sticky problems. The airline industry is so convoluted that it's very satisfying to help someone get things done right. Thank you for the kind words!
 

Neil Maley

Staff Member
Forum Moderator
Dec 27, 2014
25,883
29,033
New York
www.promalvacations.com
Who actually charged your credit card - the travel agency or the airline or did you book with points? You did pay for part of your ticket with a credit card, correct? If the cc charge says you were charged by the agency, does it actually say “Wells Fargo Go Far”? Or Corporate Travel Management North America?

That is who books the travel for Wells Fargo:

Corporate Travel Management North America Inc. provides the Program’s travel services.

It seems the are located in Massachusetts:
Corporate Travel Management North America Inc.

Website
www.travelctm.com
Address
101 Edgewater Dr Ste 110
Wakefield , MA, 01880-1262
United States
See other locations
Phone
(781) 994-1200

Key Principal
Anita Salvatore
 
Apr 19, 2021
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My credit card statement says Air France charged my card. Thanks for keeping me going with the questions that will hopefully help my case.
 
Apr 19, 2021
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Calendar of Events on Ticket refund requests.

(
Hope I haven't included too much extraneous stuff.)

4/18/19 – Booked safari trip with outfitter

12/19/19 – Booked flights on Air France’s website for Paris > Brazzaville on 6/10/20 returning to Paris on 6/22/20.

2/25/20 – Booked flights from USA to Amsterdam for 6/5/20, Amsterdam to Paris for 6/10/20 and return to the USA on 6/23/20. Credit Card was billed by Air France. I booked through Wells Fargo Go Far Rewards Travel Center. I used 173,728 points to bring the price down.

4/29/20 – Air France sent me an email saying they had cancelled the Paris to Brazzaville flight.

5/12/20 – Talked to Melissa at Go Far Rewards about the USA to Europe tickets. My notes say “flight arrangements were cancelled. Can take 8 weeks for a refund. Points will be reinstated and cash refunded by mid July.”

5/12/20 – Called Delta to make sure the first legs of the trip were cancelled.

5/15/20 – Sent a note to Air France asking for a refund of the Paris>Brazzaville flights.

6/25/20 – Air France refunded the Paris>Brazzaville flights back to my credit card.

7/1/20 – Called Air France about a refund on the USA>Amsterdam>Paris flight. They told me to call Go Far Rewards Center to arrange for this refund so I could get my points back.

7/1/20 – Called Go Far Rewards Travel Center. Claire confirmed that I talked to Melissa on 5/12/20 and a request was submitted on 5/13/20 for a refund on the USA> Europe flight. They said the request is still under review by Air France and will take 90-120 days. If accepted, I will get the 173,750 points back plus the balance of cash I paid for the price for the 5 tickets.

12/9/20 – Talked with Go Far Rewards. A manager said he would call back with an update. He did not.

12/14/20 – Talked to Nancy from Go Far Rewards. She investigated and said Air France now owns the ticket so travel agency doesn’t know the status. She said she will call me back. I have no notes saying I talked with her again.

1/5/21 – Called Air France directly and they disconnected me “due to long waits.”

1/5/21 – Talked to Amasee at Go Far Rewards. She said she would get back to me as soon as she reaches Air France.

1/12/21 – Amasee called back and says Air France told her they will refund the money but are working it out with Delta because Delta actually received my payment. Amasee says they will refund cash and points when they receive it.

4/21/21 – Spoke to Angelina at Go Far Rewards and she is sending another request to accounting to find out what the status is on my refund.
 

jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
11,040
13,231
San Francisco
Calendar of Events on Ticket refund requests.

(
Hope I haven't included too much extraneous stuff.)

4/18/19 – Booked safari trip with outfitter

12/19/19 – Booked flights on Air France’s website for Paris > Brazzaville on 6/10/20 returning to Paris on 6/22/20.

2/25/20 – Booked flights from USA to Amsterdam for 6/5/20, Amsterdam to Paris for 6/10/20 and return to the USA on 6/23/20. Credit Card was billed by Air France. I booked through Wells Fargo Go Far Rewards Travel Center. I used 173,728 points to bring the price down.

4/29/20 – Air France sent me an email saying they had cancelled the Paris to Brazzaville flight.

5/12/20 – Talked to Melissa at Go Far Rewards about the USA to Europe tickets. My notes say “flight arrangements were cancelled. Can take 8 weeks for a refund. Points will be reinstated and cash refunded by mid July.”

5/12/20 – Called Delta to make sure the first legs of the trip were cancelled.

5/15/20 – Sent a note to Air France asking for a refund of the Paris>Brazzaville flights.

6/25/20 – Air France refunded the Paris>Brazzaville flights back to my credit card.

7/1/20 – Called Air France about a refund on the USA>Amsterdam>Paris flight. They told me to call Go Far Rewards Center to arrange for this refund so I could get my points back.

7/1/20 – Called Go Far Rewards Travel Center. Claire confirmed that I talked to Melissa on 5/12/20 and a request was submitted on 5/13/20 for a refund on the USA> Europe flight. They said the request is still under review by Air France and will take 90-120 days. If accepted, I will get the 173,750 points back plus the balance of cash I paid for the price for the 5 tickets.

12/9/20 – Talked with Go Far Rewards. A manager said he would call back with an update. He did not.

12/14/20 – Talked to Nancy from Go Far Rewards. She investigated and said Air France now owns the ticket so travel agency doesn’t know the status. She said she will call me back. I have no notes saying I talked with her again.

1/5/21 – Called Air France directly and they disconnected me “due to long waits.”

1/5/21 – Talked to Amasee at Go Far Rewards. She said she would get back to me as soon as she reaches Air France.

1/12/21 – Amasee called back and says Air France told her they will refund the money but are working it out with Delta because Delta actually received my payment. Amasee says they will refund cash and points when they receive it.

4/21/21 – Spoke to Angelina at Go Far Rewards and she is sending another request to accounting to find out what the status is on my refund
Good start, Kate. I will look at this first thing tomorrow ... I'm on the west coast.
 
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Apr 19, 2021
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The flights from the USA to Amsterdam to Paris and from Paris to the USA all had one confirmation code. So it was a multicity ticket for five people.
 

jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
11,040
13,231
San Francisco
Five people? Five tix? Oh my. You bought all 5 tix? Sorry I didn't get to this yesterday, but have downloaded these posts and will see if I can figure this out.