Violation of human right to call

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Mar 15, 2016
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#21
My state has a system in place to allow those residents with TTY to communicate with people without TTY. No video calling is necessary. An operator is in the middle, and reads the TTY to the person without TTY, then translates the response from the voice end to a typed form for the TTY device. It even works with telebraille devices. It is a toll-free number that can be used by anyone in the state.

We pay a small tax on each landline throughout the state, then the state awards a contract every two years on a bid process to provide the operators and services. Over the years, the tax has actually gone DOWN, because of email and smart phones that will allow users to text and email or communicate directly via computer services.

My point is that there are other methods of communication.
@Nate Hergert , it sounds as though you are a sighted person. This means that text messaging is possible for you. Therefore, while I appreciate that you prefer to use video calling, when you are not within a WiFi area, you do have alternatives at least part of the time for other methods of communication unless you are a hearing impaired person trying to communicate with a sight-impaired person. In that case, you might need an intermediary, but maybe not. Technology does a lot to intervene. Maybe you should use more text messaging and email when you are traveling.

Sorry, but I don't believe your rights have been infringed.

Oh, BTW, I'm an educator. Over the years, I have worked with students who are hearing impaired, vision impaired and physically impaired. I'm currently using a wheelchair for an unforeseen amount of time. I appreciate all that the ADA has done, as it means I can get to and from work and around campus. I means that every building has an elevator and I can always find a restroom that will allow me to take care of business. I will fight for real issues, but this just isn't one.
I would love to continue this discussion off the forum.

In the meantime, my counter argument is that what if the deaf person doesn't know how to read? They are more likely to be taught ASL. Why should a deaf person be opressed or take away their right to call people? TTY doesn't help, texting doesn't help. Texting to 911 isn't available to all areas. Signing to other people is 50% faster than texting or typing for that matter.

I don't know about you but I rather not have to wake up from a car accident and realize that I lost use of wrists but can use fingers, but I can't text. But I can call vrs for emergency. I want all options to be available.

If those options are available for hearing people through phone service, I should have access to that too.
 
Aug 29, 2015
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#22
If a hearing person had an accident on an isolated highway, how do you reach the emergency response team? Word of mouth? Wells Fargo mail system? Mail? Police officer in a car to drive to emergency response team to bring the ambulance to the accident?

No, I NEED the phone in case of emergency so that I can survive.
You reach them the same way as anyone else - you call 911. 911 Operators will dispatch the closest responder to your location. It might not be the right team, but the nearest deputy will then call the right people to deal with the situation. Your phone has GPS to allow them to find you.

Heck, on an isolated highway, the likelihood of you getting a video call through is remote, anyway. There probably won't be sufficient bandwidth for data to be more than email.
 
Mar 15, 2016
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#23
You reach them the same way as anyone else - you call 911. 911 Operators will dispatch the closest responder to your location. It might not be the right team, but the nearest deputy will then call the right people to deal with the situation. Your phone has GPS to allow them to find you.

Heck, on an isolated highway, the likelihood of you getting a video call through is remote, anyway. There probably won't be sufficient bandwidth for data to be more than email.
Please, I beg you, how do I "call" in the definition of what you are telling me?

You would be surprised with the coverage Verizon has. I was able to make a video call in the remote highway outside of my largest metro urban growth boundary.
 

technomage1

Verified Member
Jan 5, 2015
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#24
Please advise where I do not pay more than you have to pay to call other people. Why should I have to pay more just to have access to a phone service than you can have access to a phone service? What if we live in the same block in beverly hills? What if we had the same amount of income and credit?

The main difference between you and me is that I lost my hearing and I can't use the regular phone line and I am FORCED to use other means to communicate with other people. Why should I feel small and feel like I need to rely on other people to serve my needs? I can take the power and call people on my own. If you have access to a phone line, I shouldn't have to pay more to access the same line as you do.
I'm not the one you need to convince nor is anyone else on this forum. I've given you my best advice on how to approach Verizon and get a result in your favor. Take it or don't, your choice.
 
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Realitoes

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#25
Nate, first off, this is a great discussion and I applaud you for bring it up!

If we boil this down, what you are wanting is unlimited access for high speed wireless internet access at no addition cost to your cell service to accommodate your disability. As far as I know, there is no legal requirement for any company to provide this. Also, the capability to provide this at all times in all places does not exist. While cell coverage is rather good in most areas, internet connections at the speeds you would need for video are limited. There are alternatives, such as texting that would work much better with the existing technology and service areas.

As for receiving the service to accommodate your disability at no additional cost. While that would be great, that is just not realistic. There is a real cost here that has to be paid by somebody, normally by the individual needing the service. There are many folks with disabilities that require some accommodations with various products that have to pay for those services/products. For example, if someone has a disability that prevents them from driving a normal vehicle, the car company does not pay for the modifications, this is normally absorbed by the individual.

Now there may be organizations or government programs that will assist in that, but the cost still has to be paid. That may be an option you can explore.
 
Mar 15, 2016
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#26
I'm not the one you need to convince nor is anyone else on this forum. I've given you my best advice on how to approach Verizon and get a result in your favor. Take it or don't, your choice.
I agree with you technomage1. I just find it funny on how everyone define rights vs what I define as a right. You take "hearing" things for granted, perhaps?
 
Mar 15, 2016
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#27
Nate, first off, this is a great discussion and I applaud you for bring it up!

If we boil this down, what you are wanting is unlimited access for high speed wireless internet access at no addition cost to your cell service to accommodate your disability. As far as I know, there is no legal requirement for any company to provide this. Also, the capability to provide this at all times in all places does not exist. While cell coverage is rather good in most areas, internet connections at the speeds you would need for video are limited. There are alternatives, such as texting that would work much better with the existing technology and service areas.

As for receiving the service to accommodate your disability at no additional cost. While that would be great, that is just not realistic. There is a real cost here that has to be paid by somebody, normally by the individual needing the service. There are many folks with disabilities that require some accommodations with various products that have to pay for those services/products. For example, if someone has a disability that prevents them from driving a normal vehicle, the car company does not pay for the modifications, this is normally absorbed by the individual.

Now there may be organizations or government programs that will assist in that, but the cost still has to be paid. That may be an option you can explore.
A terrorist lives in the united states. He calls his mother through his home land line to his mother's residence somewhere else in the united states. They have a conversation where they both understand each other. They hang up and walk away happy from the phone.

I live in the united states, I cannot use the land line. I cannot call my mother. She's alive, she can't call me because we both have no way to call each other and understand each other. We both are sad.

By this scenario, does that make me lower than a terrorist based on the right to access?

This is exact proportion of a terrorist wheeling his mother in a wheelchair, there's a ramp that helps them access the store happy. Everyone else uses the stairs. I wheel in my mother. I see the ramp. Wait! A security guy stops us. "Pay up. You need to pay $15 just to access the ramp every time you want to use it."

I have to pay extra just to be able to call anyone in the world on Verizon's data.

I would GLADLY pay extra to have unlimited, to the tune of the eliminated phone plan's cost, say $30 for unlimited calling and texting (no data). So which means, $60 for 6gb data plus $30 for unlimited texting and calling. That would mean $90 a month for the access to data including 6gb and text messaging minus the ability to call people on cell phone line, changing the data to unlimited.

Wouldn't that be more fair?
 

technomage1

Verified Member
Jan 5, 2015
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#28
I agree with you technomage1. I just find it funny on how everyone define rights vs what I define as a right. You take "hearing" things for granted, perhaps?
Believe me, I don't. Too many decades of hearing jets take off yards away and mortars/rockets exploding with no hearing protection have taken its toll on me. I've every sympathy with those who have any disability. I just can't buy the premise that a cell phone, even for the hearing, is a basic right, or that one shouldn't pay for the services one uses, and I think that approach harms your case.
 
R

Realitoes

Guest
#29
A terrorist lives in the united states. He calls his mother through his home land line to his mother's residence somewhere else in the united states. They have a conversation where they both understand each other. They hang up and walk away happy from the phone.

I live in the united states, I cannot use the land line. I cannot call my mother. She's alive, she can't call me because we both have no way to call each other and understand each other. We both are sad.

By this scenario, does that make me lower than a terrorist based on the right to access?

This is exact proportion of a terrorist wheeling his mother in a wheelchair, there's a ramp that helps them access the store happy. Everyone else uses the stairs. I wheel in my mother. I see the ramp. Wait! A security guy stops us. "Pay up. You need to pay $15 just to access the ramp every time you want to use it."

I have to pay extra just to be able to call anyone in the world on Verizon's data.

I would GLADLY pay extra to have unlimited, to the tune of the eliminated phone plan's cost, say $30 for unlimited calling and texting (no data). So which means, $60 for 6gb data plus $30 for unlimited texting and calling. That would mean $90 a month for the access to data including 6gb and text messaging minus the ability to call people on cell phone line, changing the data to unlimited.

Wouldn't that be more fair?
Life unfortunately isn't fair. Why use an example of a terrorist, rather just some other Joe, except to elicit further sympathy. You really don't need to go there, we do understand your issue and sympathize with it.

Your scenario concerning a ramp has to do with public customer access into a public business, not the use of a service or product. If the ramp was need for access to your own home, then you would need to pay that cost yourself (or with the help from assisting organizations/government program).
 
Likes: Patina
Mar 15, 2016
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#30
Believe me, I don't. Too many decades of hearing jets take off yards away and mortars/rockets exploding with no hearing protection have taken its toll on me. I've every sympathy with those who have any disability. I just can't buy the premise that a cell phone, even for the hearing, is a basic right, or that one shouldn't pay for the services one uses, and I think that approach harms your case.
I can choose to have a cell phone. Yes. I chose to have a cell phone. So you are saying I should be thankful that I have access to a cell phone and be quiet and pay more than an average american for access to communication?
 
Mar 15, 2016
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#31
Life unfortunately isn't fair. Why use an example of a terrorist, rather just some other Joe, except to elicit further sympathy. You really don't need to go there, we do understand your issue and sympathize with it.

Your scenario concerning a ramp has to do with public customer access into a public business, not the use of a service or product. If the ramp was need for access to your own home, then you would need to pay that cost yourself (or with the help from assisting organizations/government program).
For the ramp, the STORE wants to pay for it because it allows more money to come to them. There's a return to the investment.

Your logic is correct about the house, with ME paying for the ramp. It's because I want to live there.

Why should I have to modify someone's store? They already modified the store by charging me $15 to use the ramp. Why should I have to pay Verizon $15 extra to use their service?? It's RIGHT THERE!!! I see the ramp!

It's like a rip-off fee you all see all the time.
 
R

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#32
For the ramp, the STORE wants to pay for it because it allows more money to come to them. There's a return to the investment.

Your logic is correct about the house, with ME paying for the ramp. It's because I want to live there.

Why should I have to modify someone's store? They already modified the store by charging me $15 to use the ramp. Why should I have to pay Verizon $15 extra to use their service?? It's RIGHT THERE!!! I see the ramp!

It's like a rip-off fee you all see all the time.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they are required to provided the ramp (in USA anyway) by law in accordance with the ADA. I've never head of anyone being charged, especially someone with a disability, which would probably be a violation of the same law. Can you give an example of where this happens?
 

technomage1

Verified Member
Jan 5, 2015
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#33
I can choose to have a cell phone. Yes. I chose to have a cell phone. So you are saying I should be thankful that I have access to a cell phone and be quiet and pay more than an average american for access to communication?
A wheelchair user lays more for a specially modified car with hand controls. For that matter, they pay for their wheelchair, which is necessary for their free movement, A blind person pays more for books on tape or Braille ones. I'd say (sadly enough) given the awful state of public transport in most of the US a car is a lot more of a necessity for most Americans than phones of any type, landline or cell.
 
Mar 15, 2016
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#34
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they are required to provided the ramp (in USA anyway) by law in accordance with the ADA. I've never head of anyone being charged, especially someone with a disability, which would probably be a violation of the same law. Can you give an example of where this happens?
I am giving you a simple logic explanation. Verizon is exactly like a Store. A is B. If B provides a ramp access for free, then A should provide the ramp for free too, but no, A is charging me for access to the ramp.

What if I need to call ambulance? I call through relay service, then I look at the bill realizing that I was charged $15 for using the data, I went over my allocated data limit.

If I was hearing, I call the ambulance through regular cell phone, then I look at the bill, it costs me nothing extra because I have unlimited minutes.

Please let me know if that makes sense now.
 
R

Realitoes

Guest
#35
I am giving you a simple logic explanation. Verizon is exactly like a Store. A is B. If B provides a ramp access for free, then A should provide the ramp for free too, but no, A is charging me for access to the ramp.

What if I need to call ambulance? I call through relay service, then I look at the bill realizing that I was charged $15 for using the data, I went over my allocated data limit.

If I was hearing, I call the ambulance through regular cell phone, then I look at the bill, it costs me nothing extra because I have unlimited minutes.

Please let me know if that makes sense now.
I think Techno answered this beautifully above.
 
Mar 15, 2016
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#36
A wheelchair user lays more for a specially modified car with hand controls. For that matter, they pay for their wheelchair, which is necessary for their free movement, A blind person pays more for books on tape or Braille ones. I'd say (sadly enough) given the awful state of public transport in most of the US a car is a lot more of a necessity for most Americans than phones of any type, landline or cell.
Would you pay to have free captions on a plane to view a movie that is free???

United is guilty of this "crime". http://danieltakeshi.github.io/2012/08/24/united-airlines-where-are-the-captions/
 
Mar 15, 2016
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#37
Why should I be punished for being deaf? Why should the person in the wheelchair be punished? Why should a Veteran for that matter be punished for being on a wheel chair after stepping on a land mine?

What can we do to support them?

Are you not that unthankful for your access to services?
 

technomage1

Verified Member
Jan 5, 2015
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#38
Would you pay to have free captions on a plane to view a movie that is free???

United is guilty of this "crime". http://danieltakeshi.github.io/2012/08/24/united-airlines-where-are-the-captions/
But you're not paying extra. Thats just it. You're paying the same if you use a regular plan or less for extra data than I do, at least if you use one of the plans for the deaf I mentioned.

And don't compare voice to data. They're apples and oranges. I can get voice over a much, much less expensive network vs. data. Copper lines vs fiber, really. You can use fiber to transmit voice but copper only takes limited data and that's with a dedicated line to a house. The cost to the cell company isn't the same and they pass that, to include the necessary infrastructure upgrades from the old phone lines to fiber, cell towers, and satellites to accommodate the increased traffic, along to you and I. And they've every right to. They're a business, not a public service or a charity. Heck, even public utilities will shut you off if you don't pay your bill.
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
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www.promalvacations.com
#39
Mr. Hergert, what did hearing impaired people do before the days of cell phones? They managed to live and communicate.

Verizon doesn't owe anyone free use of a service due to a disability I am afraid. You have to pay for it just like everyone else or just learn to live without it.

My wife has Lupus and replaced 5 major joints. If God forbid she should fall somewhere, she can't get up. She needs a cell phone in an emergency probably more than you do. So should she get a free pass too? Of course not.

What happened to people in the days before cell phones?
 
Likes: Realitoes
Aug 28, 2015
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#40
If a hearing person had an accident on an isolated highway, how do you reach the emergency response team? Word of mouth? Wells Fargo mail system? Mail? Police officer in a car to drive to emergency response team to bring the ambulance to the accident?

No, I NEED the phone in case of emergency so that I can survive.
You always have access to 911 regardless of data plan so don't worry about emergencies. You are covered there.
 
Likes: Neil Maley
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