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Tix international gate1.ca code-share information not disclosed

Nov 26, 2019
11
0
1
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Hi all. First an foremost, just to throw the dead horse out there; I've learned that I should book through a travel agency or through the actual airline if possible.
Secondly, thank you so much in advance for all your help.

I will try to provide as much information and as succinct as possible.

-Booked return tickets through gate1.ca, from Toronto to Tokyo stopping in the US both ways. ANA was the only airline shown at time of booking.
-Jumped on the tickets due to the price and that they operated by ANA.
-Received the confirmation email with a pdf file attach, ANA was still the only airline shown.
-Received actual tickets itinerary, ANA was not the only airline, some flights are operated by UA.
-Including the above reason and also among other reasons not relevant(including gate1.ca posing as a Canadian company registered until a false address), I do not want the tickets anymore.
-Contacted gate1.ca, notified them that tickets are not what I bought. Provided screenshots, and my initial confirmation email + pdf.
-Got a response back, saying along the line of "NHXXX has always been UAXXX, we disclose all information (not true, no code-share information was shown), you can see in your itinerary"
-Called my BMO mastercard company, got told that they can only dispute half of the tickets back, because although the portions from Toronto - US are wrong (operated by UA), the portions from US - Tokyo was correct (operated by ANA).
(I call BS now that I think about it. What if you book a first class tickets to a concert and never got the first class seats? They can then tell you the concert part is still correct so you can't get your full money back if tickets are not used? Or if you order a long sleeve dress but only received short sleeves, are you only entitled to some of the cost even if you return it?)
-BMO MC also told me a lot of misinformation, including airlines probably can switch my tickets however they like and have me travel whatever airlines however they like.
-I did more diggings, found out about the DOT 41712 violation that doesn't only apply to airlines but third party booking agents as well.
-Contacted ANA; it's not that they aren't willing to help, but according to them, they just can't touch my tickets.
-Sent another email to gate1.ca, citing DOT 41712.
-They got back to me today, sending me a screenshot of how operating airlines are shown during the booking process (contracting to mine and THEIR confirmation email, they have been updating their system, but I have all the screenshots)
- They also said to me that "Regarding the DOT, I would like to inform you that the DOT regulation does not apply to your booking. The DOT regulation is only valid for bookings made in the United States which fall under the American regulations. Your booking has been made on Gate1.ca and is therefore not subject to any American regulations."
-This back and forth has been going on for 2 weeks.

Below in the screenshots, you can see from the first 3 are when I booked the tickets, and one showing the one that they sent back to me with updated information.

I have yet to replied to gate1.ca or call my BMO MC again giving them new information.
And just a note, although I am Canadian, at the time of booking, I was in Washington DC. Tickets were booked in Washington DC. Also just a reminder, I have to fly in and out of the US for part of this flight.

Instead of responding , telling them that booking was made in the US, my next step was to complain to DOT, but I've read that investigation might take months.
Can I still got to my credit card, inform them of the 41712 violation, and complain to DOT at the same time? I am a little worried because I only have 90 days from the time of purchase to dispute my charge.

If you guys have any advice, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.
 

Attachments

weihlac

Verified Member
Jun 30, 2017
2,407
3,007
113
Maui Hawaii
Hi all. First an foremost, just to throw the dead horse out there; I've learned that I should book through a travel agency or through the actual airline if possible.
Secondly, thank you so much in advance for all your help.

I will try to provide as much information and as succinct as possible.

-Booked return tickets through gate1.ca, from Toronto to Tokyo stopping in the US both ways. ANA was the only airline shown at time of booking.
-Jumped on the tickets due to the price and that they operated by ANA.
-Received the confirmation email with a pdf file attach, ANA was still the only airline shown.
-Received actual tickets itinerary, ANA was not the only airline, some flights are operated by UA.
-Including the above reason and also among other reasons not relevant(including gate1.ca posing as a Canadian company registered until a false address), I do not want the tickets anymore.
-Contacted gate1.ca, notified them that tickets are not what I bought. Provided screenshots, and my initial confirmation email + pdf.
-Got a response back, saying along the line of "NHXXX has always been UAXXX, we disclose all information (not true, no code-share information was shown), you can see in your itinerary"
-Called my BMO mastercard company, got told that they can only dispute half of the tickets back, because although the portions from Toronto - US are wrong (operated by UA), the portions from US - Tokyo was correct (operated by ANA).
(I call BS now that I think about it. What if you book a first class tickets to a concert and never got the first class seats? They can then tell you the concert part is still correct so you can't get your full money back if tickets are not used? Or if you order a long sleeve dress but only received short sleeves, are you only entitled to some of the cost even if you return it?)
-BMO MC also told me a lot of misinformation, including airlines probably can switch my tickets however they like and have me travel whatever airlines however they like.
-I did more diggings, found out about the DOT 41712 violation that doesn't only apply to airlines but third party booking agents as well.
-Contacted ANA; it's not that they aren't willing to help, but according to them, they just can't touch my tickets.
-Sent another email to gate1.ca, citing DOT 41712.
-They got back to me today, sending me a screenshot of how operating airlines are shown during the booking process (contracting to mine and THEIR confirmation email, they have been updating their system, but I have all the screenshots)
- They also said to me that "Regarding the DOT, I would like to inform you that the DOT regulation does not apply to your booking. The DOT regulation is only valid for bookings made in the United States which fall under the American regulations. Your booking has been made on Gate1.ca and is therefore not subject to any American regulations."
-This back and forth has been going on for 2 weeks.

Below in the screenshots, you can see from the first 3 are when I booked the tickets, and one showing the one that they sent back to me with updated information.

I have yet to replied to gate1.ca or call my BMO MC again giving them new information.
And just a note, although I am Canadian, at the time of booking, I was in Washington DC. Tickets were booked in Washington DC. Also just a reminder, I have to fly in and out of the US for part of this flight.

Instead of responding , telling them that booking was made in the US, my next step was to complain to DOT, but I've read that investigation might take months.
Can I still got to my credit card, inform them of the 41712 violation, and complain to DOT at the same time? I am a little worried because I only have 90 days from the time of purchase to dispute my charge.

If you guys have any advice, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.
ANA cannot fly from Canada to the US, or US to Canada; they do not have authorization for these routes. They can fly from Canada or from the US to Japan. Any flight itinerary you make will have codeshares to connect to ANA to Japan. An all-ANA flight schedule cannot be done. Any flight number with 4 digits is likely a codeshare. UA and ANA are part of the Star Alliance and codeshare all the time.

If you wish to fly on ANA only you need to drive or take the train to get to an airport where ANA flies non-stop to Japan. Changing your ticket will not fix this issue.

"ANA serves Chicago O’Hare, Honolulu, Los Angeles, New York JFK, San Francisco, San Jose, Seattle-Tacoma, Houston and Washington Dulles from its Narita hub". You need to get to one of these hubs.
 
Last edited:
May 1, 2018
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Why are you focusing on the operating carrier for the short Toronto to Chicago flight? Which by the way that flight is operated by ExpressJet.

If I were you I would focus on the departure time change. You confirmed flights are a significantly different time than what you booked - that's a far more valid reason to cancel than not liking the operating carrier. You could have always found the operating carrier by googling the NH7387 flight number just as I did.
 
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Jun 24, 2019
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ANA's obligation is to get you from point A to point B, and they appear ready to do so. You are spending a lot of energy to avoid flying United Airlines which is flying part of that route as a code share. In fact, ANA probably could have booked your ticket using only code share flights operated by other airlines. And I don't understand how Gate1 is masquerading as a Canadian company if all it has done is purchased a Canadian internet address.
 
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Reactions: VoR61
Jun 24, 2019
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I just flew from Miami to LAX on American. Upon arrival at MIA, I discovered my flight was a code share with Finnair and two other airlines. Finnair is undoubtedly selling one stop service from Helsinki to LAX. I did not view that the existence of code share flights was somehow disqualifying.
 
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Reactions: jsn55

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
21,047
20,864
113
New York
www.promalvacations.com
In the US, DOT rules state that a code share must be disclosed if you are booking tickets here. They are correct since you are located and booked on a Canadian site. So the DOT rules don't apply.
 

BittyBoo

Jul 30, 2018
299
772
93
48
The OP is asserting that because he was physically located in the US when he accessed a Canadian based OTA's website and purchased airline tickets from them (presumably with Canadian dollars) that US DOT rules govern the entire purchase?
 

Neil Maley

Moderator
Staff Member
Advocate
Dec 27, 2014
21,047
20,864
113
New York
www.promalvacations.com
The OP is asserting that because he was physically located in the US when he accessed a Canadian based OTA's website and purchased airline tickets from them (presumably with Canadian dollars) that US DOT rules govern the entire purchase?
Not unless it was booked on a US website. It was booked on a Canadian site and the DOT has no jurisdiction over that. And the OP's IP address is in Canada, not the US.
 
Jun 24, 2019
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I did a sample booking on ANA. The codeshare airlines were disclosed on ANA's web site.

Gate1 Travel's terms and conditions may cover where the transaction took place. I'm not going to try to sort that out. Our OP went to a Canadian web site. Whether our DOT wants to assert jurisdiction because OP was in the USA when he accessed the Canadian web site is not up to us. If I recall, Gate1 is ultimately located in Greece, but Neil knows that stuff. Maybe there is jurisdiction in Japan, the USA, Canada and Greece. Maybe the T&C tells us what law applies. Maybe our DOT doesn't like those T&Cs.

The plain fact is that to get to Japan on ANA from Toronto requires a code share flight on some airline, on some equipment which might not be terrifically comfortable. Weihlac covered this in post 2.

So the question to OP, who has not been back, is, had the code share been disclosed, what would you have done?
 
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Reactions: catbana and jsn55
Dec 19, 2014
590
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The the OP....
I'm not trying to be facetious, but can you explain whether
a) you have a legitimate reason why you won't fly United or more specifically Express Jet?
or
b) are you just trying to get a refund?

Do you have the intent to fly to Tokyo? or you trying to provoke a rule violation?
 
Sep 19, 2015
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"Gate1 is part of the Tix Travel Group. We have offices in the Netherlands (HQ), Poland, Germany and Curacao."

Gate1 (not the same as Gte1travel.com) does not seem to market itself as being a US company -- or having a website targeting US consumers

Indeed, by looking at their administrative fees -- the US dollar is not listed -- therefore I have to agree with Neil that the DOT has no jurisdiction.
Screenshot_2019-11-26 Microsoft Word - Terms2019 docx - Terms2019 pdf.png
 
Sep 19, 2015
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Honestly I think the OP has no claim for a chargeback.

Applying US DOT rules to a company that does not market itself to the US does not sound possible -- and if BMO is the Bank of Montreal I fail to see how this is will be of interest to them. It does not matter that the flights transfer in the US -- the company does not market itself to US

Also a DOT complaint will take months, but even more important the DOT does instigate private actions on behalf of a consumer. the DOT has the power to fine a company -- but the money goes to the DOT.

Honestly this sounds like second thoughts after booking with some unknown OTA and trying to find a loophole to cancel the ticket and get a refund for a non refundable ticket.
 

BittyBoo

Jul 30, 2018
299
772
93
48
Honestly I think the OP has no claim for a chargeback.

Applying US DOT rules to a company that does not market itself to the US does not sound possible -- and if BMO is the Bank of Montreal I fail to see how this is will be of interest to them. It does not matter that the flights transfer in the US -- the company does not market itself to US

Also a DOT complaint will take months, but even more important the DOT does instigate private actions on behalf of a consumer. the DOT has the power to fine a company -- but the money goes to the DOT.

Honestly this sounds like second thoughts after booking with some unknown OTA and trying to find a loophole to cancel the ticket and get a refund for a non refundable ticket.
That's what I conclude: buyers remorse.
 
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Feb 3, 2019
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Any flight number with 4 digits is likely a codeshare.
Out of curiosity, are you referring to ANA flights specifically? Because that doesn't appear to be a valid rule of thumb for the U.S.-flag majors, as well as Allegiant and Spirit.
 
Nov 26, 2019
11
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Thank you everyone.
I can not tell you what I would've done if I did see the information. All I can say is, one of the main deciding factor WAS the airline. I specifically picked it because of the airline. When the tickets came back, I was surprised. I thought I've made a mistake.

At the time of booking, I did not know how code-share works or that ANA does not cover connection flights, which is apparent now after the fact.

ANA probably could have booked your ticket using only code share flights operated by other airlines.
No, they could not, not without disclosing the code-share flight information, under both the US and Canada transportation law.

And I don't understand how Gate1 is masquerading as a Canadian company if all it has done is purchased a Canadian internet address.
In order to register for a CA domain, you has satisfy the Canadian Presence Requirements.
You can break the rules by registering under a false address, like I have mentioned about this site, but if you get found out, your site will get shut down.

This is one of the reasons why I don't want to do business with them. Because they don't have a working CAN # nor work under CAN hours (and once again, registered under a false Canadian address) which has made it very difficult to deal with critical issues in a timely manner.

They have conveniently avoided disclosing their location, by simply saying "local hours" on their contact page.

I understand that I should not have taken these things at face values, and that I should've done more homework as to understand what airlines cover what routes and how it works, but I still think how this company operates is very questionable.

I will report to the DOT any way for them to make their decisions. And definitely report to CIRA about their Canadian Presence Requirements violations.
 

jsn55

Verified Member
Dec 26, 2014
9,026
9,697
113
San Francisco
I agree with some of my colleagues ... this is a very long description of a situation that is not a negative at all. I think our OP has decided he doesn't like what he purchased. We certainly don't know the reason for that decision. While that's fine, reality is that our OP's rights are zilch because he didn't book direct with the airline. I don't think Gate1 will be very receptive to helping; I don't believe they're a "top-shelf" company but one of mass appeal. And half the time, the top-shelf companies don't help either. I hope our OP comes back to us, this is a most interesting situation. For the record, Catbana, there's nothing wrong with United. I 've flown United since they were Continental.

FOR OUR OTHER READERS If you want to purchase air through your tour provider, be very careful and be sure you know exactly what you want. Insist on knowing all the details before finalizing the booking, the confirmation numbers (so you can confirm directly with the airline), flight numbers, seat assignments ... every detail. Stay on top of the res until you're ready to fly. I just did that for the first time in my life with Viking Cruises Beijing-Hong Kong-SFO and it was a very positive exchange. Tell the truth, I was dumbfounded that it all went so well. I have a cruise coming up with NCL and I would never count on them to book my air. NCL is not the same kind of company (nor the same kind of cost) that Viking is and I would be worried that things wouldn't get done properly. Bottom line: he who pays attention to the details has happy travels.