1. Hi Guest, welcome to the help forum. You can get fast answers to your customer service questions here. We have a dedicated team of advocates who are ready to help. Just go to the section that matches your question and ask us!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. If you've posted a question or issue for our advocates to assist with, please be sure to check back frequently for responses and requests for clarification.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Did you know you can get email notifications when something new posts to your favorite forum? It's easy. Just click the "watch" link right next to the "post new thread" button at the top of your favorite forum. The rest is easy. Now you'll never miss another conversation.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Want to become an expert user? Drop by the How to use this forum section and all will be revealed. We'll show you how to make the most of your experience.
    Dismiss Notice

Fox rent a car Mexico and Amex Mexico fraud and failure

Discussion in 'Car rentals' started by mi ge, Feb 14, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mi ge

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    I thought this had been resolved my godson reserved a car through Orbitz, when we got to the Fox Rent A Car counter at the airport in Mexico they charged his American Express Mexico card for the car Plus Insurance that was supposed to be optional but they said they wouldn’t let the car be rented without it. After they ran his credit card they demanded $2,500US, 53000 pesos deposit or they wouldn’t rent him the car. I asked if I can put up my credit card for the deposit only, they said yes and without me knowing it they put the car in my name and not his, so he’s driving a car in my name, none of the insurance that we had would cover us and if there was an accident I’m at risk. We didn't find this out until we went to return the car.
    Fox after 3 weeks and a dozen or so emails finally gave a refund of the insurance but they gave it on my credit card not his. Meanwhile he had filed a dispute with American Express Mexico and they sided with Fox! The right thing would be to give him a full refund and charge me for the rental car which I’m not too happy about because I never signed a contract and I was at risk because I didn’t know the car was in my name and I had no insurance that covered him driving the car, and that should be an argument I should have with Fox, plus when I returned the car I found that Fox had a contract with my name and initials scribbled on it that were nothing like my signature and I did in fact send Fox a copy of my driver’s license at their request to compare to see someone forged this document.
    So I have two issues; number one Fox forging a document that put a car in my name putting me at risk without telling me, something more should have been done about this this is fraud and
    Two; with American Express Mexico that how could they charge my godson for a rental car that they never rented to him, that he never signed a contract for, that he was not legally allowed to drive as he wasn’t even listed as an additional driver? This is the great service that American Express Travel company does to protect its clients?
    Heads should roll somewhere.
     
    #1
  2. Neil

    Neil Moderator
    Staff Member Advocate

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2014
    Messages:
    6,985
    Likes Received:
    7,294
    Didn't you post this before?

    http://forum.elliott.org/threads/fox-rent-a-car.4861/

    i am confused by what you are saying happened. His card was charged for the insurance, correct? So if they refunded the insurance if course it went back to his card.

    You left a deposit hold for damage which should have been refunded back to your card when the car was returned with no damage. Is that correct?

    You shouldn't have put the deposit on the car in your name because the car had to be held in the name of the person putting up the money.

    There was no accident, correct? Is everyone whole?
     
    #2
  3. mi ge

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    yes and I thought that was settled when they offered to refund the insurance that they should not have charged in the first place but I didn't realize they sent the credit to me and not to my godson who paid for it on his card. They needed to refund my Godson totally because he paid and didn't get the car in his name or even listed as an additional driver. By doing it the way they did it it looks like my godson was in the wrong.
    And what authority did Fox have or American Express to allow my godson to be charged for a car that he never signed a contract for and never rented, both of these companies need to do something about these practices. Could you imagine being charged for car that you didn't rent and your credit card company said that that's okay?
    They needed to deal with me separately for the car rental part of it and I have an issue about them forging my name and putting me at risk, if there would have been an accident with me driving my godson's Collision policy he bought from Orbitz would be of no value, and if he was driving before I realized the car was in my name, which they never told me they were going to do, I would be totally on the hook for everything. And I am disabled I have seizures and narcolepsy and 90% vision loss in one eye I didn't want this car at all, and the whole deal is now swept under the rug.
    They need to play by the rules, refund my godson, admit their error to American Express, come after me for the car rental and let me dispute with them about someone forging my name on the contract. The copy I found in the car was not signed by anyone but it had my name written on the top. American Express needs to be to torn a new one for siding with Fox when there's no paperwork other than the charge slip which he signed before they told him that he couldn't have the car unless he paid them a 53000 peso deposit. Put yourself in my shoes what do you think should happen? They need at the very least be made aware of this and stop this practice, and the purpose of posting is buyer beware when you're dealing with Fox Mexico or American Express Mexico, there are other choices for car rentals and credit cards.
     
    #3
  4. JVillegirl541

    Staff Member Advocate

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    2,485
    Yes this has been on the forums before.
     
    #4
  5. mi ge

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe I wasn't clear, my godson reserved the car through Orbitz supposed to be in his name he's supposed to be the driver he bought collision insurance through Orbitz. When we went to pick up the car Fox ran his credit card and demanded liability insurance that was supposed to be optional, that was the first thing they did wrong ,he paid it and THEN they told him he had to put up with 53,000 peso deposit or they wouldn't rent him the car, he told him he couldn't do that, I asked if I could put up that deposit on my card only as a guarantee but it's his car and he's going to be The Driver, they said yes, they lied, after we left I found an unsigned paper in the glove box that said the car is in my name. I never signed it, they never told me this, that put me at risk if I drove the car which I didn't want to do because I'm disabled because the Collision was in the godson's name and I was even more at risk because he was driving the car thinking the car was his and none of the insurance would cover him. If they would have told me what they were doing we would have put him as additional driver and it wouldn't have been so bad but, when I returned the car I found that they Forged my name on the contract to put the car into my name. They should not have charged for this optional liability insurance in the first place okay they refunded it but he paid they need to refund it to him not to me, they're mixing things up, he had put the hold with American Express now it looks like he was in the wrong. I never wanted the car in my name or drive it because I have health issues and I was stuck being at risk because of what they've done, it was fortunate there was no accident but does that make what they did right? they put me at risk, they ruined my Christmas as I was stressed out about what to do, they refunded the wrong party, they made my son look bad with his credit card company and they forged my name with no consequence. I'm really appalled that American Express allowed to charge to go through even though he said he never signed anything but the charge slip, he never signed a rental agreement or contract, I don't know how Fox documented to win this claim, did they Forge his name on something too? This whole thing was just done wrong. Someone should really go to jail for this.
    But at the very least buyer beware there are other choices and fox there other companies and American Express.
     
    #5
  6. honestpointofview

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2017
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    163
    Hi Mi

    Let me deal with one what i think you are issues are namely that;

    A. American Express Mexico charged your godson for the rental car even though the car ultimately was not rented in his name Instead it was rented in yours.

    I can not see American express have done anything wrong. You say " ..rental car that they (American Express) never rented to him." Even if the car had been rented in the right name i.e your godson's it would not have been American Express renting it; it was Fox. American will not know the rental agreement; they do not get that information. They are simply providing the funds. Further as you say your son signed the charge slip authorising American to charge the amount to his account, which is what they did. So in my view they have done nothing wrong.

    B. In terms of part of your complaint against Fox I am not sure this forum can help you. You are saying that Fox have committed fraud and your resolution is that someone goes to jail. In which case the forum is not the place for help.

    However I also think you want Fox to refund your grandson;
    1. The cost of renting the car (because it was in your name) and;
    2.Refund him the cost of the insurance (which he paid for but by accident has been refunded to you).

    In which case it is your grandson that should be writing not you; or you have to get authority from him for you to deal with the matter. If he or you do write is then send a short letter setting out facts;

    1. he went to rent car but because of the liability insurance issue you ended up using your card for a deposit.
    2. Subsequent to that you found out that the car was in fact rented in your name and that A. you have never authorised that and b. that meant they allowed an unnamed driver to take the car.
    3. That he was charged insurance that was not needed because of the deposit via CC and they have already admitted that and refunded it but refunded it to you and not him.
    Therefore;
    1. Therefore he should be refunded for the rental charge as the car was not rented to him.
    2. He should be refunded the cost of the insurance.

    The contracts for Fox are on the top under company contacts; car rental. Wait a week for a response and then write to the next person up the chain.

    If you want to write as above then please do. For what it is worth however i think you are wasting your time. Why? Well I do not think they will refund the rental cost to him and then try and get the money from you. Why would they bother? What is their incentive to do that? It only causes problems for them.

    Since I starting writing this response I have looked at the other thread on this and others have already said the best way to deal with it is for the charge to be disputed - so your grandson could dispute the charge. Did you do that for the rental charge?

    I do not know the law in the relevant states(s) but the thought occurs that if your argument is right i.e the rental was not in his name then on what basis was he driving the car? Was he driving a car uninsured and thereby committing an offence? You say the rental agreement was in the car and that showed he was not named driver so if he had looked at it he would have known he was not allowed to drive it. Someone on the the forum may be able to venture an opinion but certainly you may want to seek some legal advice first before you make that argument to the company.


    Hope this helps.
     
    #6
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
    krisseye likes this.
  7. George M

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    632
    Just wondering, how old is your godson?
     
    #7
    krisseye likes this.
  8. Mike Z

    Staff Member Advocate

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Messages:
    1,089
    Likes Received:
    1,149
    My head is spinning here.

    mi ge, can you please break it down into something much simpler for simple minded people like me? Numbers only please.

    You paid $x for the deposit.
    You were returned $x for the payment. (or not)
    Your godson paid $x for whatever
    Your godson was refunded $x for whatever.

    Total missing funds are $x for each person.

    As I am reading things seem very convoluted because you are insisting that documents were forged, that things were done without permission, etc. What it boils down to is how much money are you out at the moment? So basically, are you missing $100, or $10,000?
     
    #8
  9. Neil

    Neil Moderator
    Staff Member Advocate

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2014
    Messages:
    6,985
    Likes Received:
    7,294
    If you were mistakenly credited what should go to him simply call the credit card company, ask them to cut you a check for the refund, cash the check and write your nephew a check.

    You can't have it both ways when renting - whoever is paying when th a cc is the name the rental has to go under.

    And the bigger mistake was booking through Orbitz instead of directly with the company. There are terms and conditions when renting a car that need to be read before booking because they usually state this in the fine print.
     
    #9
    honestpointofview likes this.
  10. honestpointofview

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2017
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    163
    Hi Mike

    I don't think he is out anything.

    I think what has happened is that Mi Ge used his card for the deposit/hold but no accident no claim so the hold has dropped off.
    His godson was charged for optional liability insurance but as Mi used his cc for a deposit the insurance was not needed. American (his godson's CC company) has refunded it but it looks like the the refund was paid to his (Mi's) card by mistake.
    Further his godson paid for the car rental even though in the end the rental was in Mi's name and Mi was the only authorised driver. (The rental was in Mi's name because he used the cc to secure it but he says he do not agree to the rental)

    So Mi wants;

    1. The insurance to be refunded to his godson and therefore he (Mi) will lose the credit from his card;
    2. As his godson was not the renter he wants his godson to have a refund and then the car rental company he come after Mi for the rental cost which he will dispute as he did not ask to rent the car and he says they forged his signature on the rental agreement.

    Mike - previous advice on the last thread was for his godson to dispute the charge which would then leave the car rental company to sue Mi for the money. I am not sure he has done that although my view is that one of them should pay for the car.
     
    #10
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
  11. Dwayne C

    Dwayne C Director of Advocacy
    Staff Member Advocate

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2016
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    148
    I have already advocated this case. While your godson made the reservation, you placed the security deposit on your credit card. Fox's policy was the credit card and the renter must be the same person. You were refunded the insurance payment that they admitted was erroneously charged, at that time you told me "but I don't really care who's card they credit long as they credit someone."

    As they did refund you, I'm not sure what else you expect we can do.

    .
     
    #11
    Mike Z, sas80, Neil and 4 others like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page